Puyo Puyo

[puyokid]

I think she got the point that Sig didn't trick her, but she certainly still was rather moody about it.

Yeah, that was the point I was sort of trying to get across. Raffine didn't do anything drastic like end her friendship with Sig, but she obviously wasn't too happy about the whole thing. This being said, I wonder what Raffine WOULD do if Sig's left arm WAS the result of working out and all...

I guess you could get away with calling it a redesign, but at least for me changing the design so casually and not bothering to acknowledge the change at all just adds a bit of a disconnect towards the idea that it's such a big deal of her character. At least that's how I feel, for me it's the equivalent of Luigi's cap suddenly being orange, instead of green.

That beanie must mean quite a lot to you, huh? Honestly, maybe the beanie change was for the sake of fitting more with the main setting of PP7. I mean, its appearance in Fever 1, Fever 2, and 15th WAS admittedly a bit "over-sized". Like, maybe it would have been considered too "comical" for the likes of the Puyo series' equivalent of the "real world"...

I suppose I could have been more clear since I was mainly talking about gameplay, when mentioning a SMT game with Puyo elements, while also asserting that Puyo can work in a dramatic setting.

Oh, OK. Thanks for the clarification. Personally, I don't know if I'd want 'Puyo Puyo Tensei' to be SMT using Puyo elements, as much as I'd want Puyo Puyo having a slightly more dramatic setting.

You think so? I dunno, I actually like all of the 7* art so far a lot more then the 6* versions.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't hate the 7* art. Nothing of the sort. It's just that I was sort of hoping for everyone to have totally new designs that would "pop" out even more to me than their 6* upgrades rather than either re-use artwork from 20th (i.e. Satan, Ms. Accord, Ecolo, etc.), continue using 6* upgrade appearances (Draco, Rider, Klug, Feli, etc.) or a mix of both (i.e. Rulue).

BTW, 2 questions for you.

1. I know Feli's also been revealed to have a thing for Sig, stating that his left arm is "fashionable", but which game did she say that in?

2. Do you think Puyo Quest will ever have an influence on the mainstream games after the missed opportunity of doing so for Puyo Chronicles?

 

[warelander]

Yeah, that was the point I was sort of trying to get across. Raffine didn't do anything drastic like end her friendship with Sig, but she obviously wasn't too happy about the whole thing. This being said, I wonder what Raffine WOULD do if Sig's left arm WAS the result of working out and all...

She'd probably be rather enamoured with him, though frankly I always liked to joke that her outburst and her wording during that scene may as well be the equivalent of an angry girlfriend.

That beanie must mean quite a lot to you, huh?

Not really, my point was more that I get that it's supposed to be a big part of Amitie's character, but it doesn't come across like that to me, which is part of why that subplot doesn't really interest me that much. To be fair though that's also coming from the perspective of someone who is very indifferent towards Amitie in general, these days.

Honestly, maybe the beanie change was for the sake of fitting more with the main setting of PP7. I mean, its appearance in Fever 1, Fever 2, and 15th WAS admittedly a bit "over-sized". Like, maybe it would have been considered too "comical" for the likes of the Puyo series' equivalent of the "real world"...

Considering that her Henshin forms still use the old hat I doubt that's the case.

1. I know Feli's also been revealed to have a thing for Sig, stating that his left arm is "fashionable", but which game did she say that in?

Sig's story in 20th, that's where the fashionable comments are a minor recurring thing.

2. Do you think Puyo Quest will ever have an influence on the mainstream games after the missed opportunity of doing so for Puyo Chronicles?

Depends on what kind of influence we are talking about here, though considering the game's continued success I wouldn't be surprised if something of the sort happened at some point.

 

[puyokid]

She'd probably be rather enamored with him, though frankly I always liked to joke that her outburst and her wording during that scene may as well be the equivalent of an angry girlfriend.

Oh, man, that's hilarious! I can already picture Raffine acting that way to Sig. Maybe with a bit of "Tsundere" thrown for decent measure.

Not really, my point was more that I get that it's supposed to be a big part of Amitie's character, but it doesn't come across like that to me, which is part of why that subplot doesn't really interest me that much. To be fair though, that's also coming from the perspective of someone who is very indifferent towards Amitie in general these days.

Ah, I see. I know this is going to sound silly, but I almost wish SEGA established some sort of "mysterious history" about the Puyo beanie prior to 20th, so that in the event that SEGA WOULD want to do something in the future, the concept would be there on standby, if you know what I mean.

Considering that her Henshin forms still use the old hat I doubt that's the case.

Honestly, I feel that things like THAT might be the result of "leftovers" from the early stages of PP7's development. Honestly, a LOT of stuff implies that PP7 might not have even taken place in the series' equivalent of the "real world" (Ringo's dimension). If anything, it seems that the original setting of PP7 would have been just as (if not MORE) magical as Primp. Not to mention Ringo's outfits in Chibi and Deka form, as well as Arle and the Fever-era kids returning to their original clothing while Henshin is going on.

Sig's story in 20th, that's where the fashionable comments are a minor recurring thing.

Oh, I see. Thanks! Out of curiosity, does Draco ever come across Sig to say that about him or is she still recorded as never interacting with him yet?

Depends on what kind of influence we are talking about here, though considering the game's continued success I wouldn't be surprised if something of the sort happened at some point.

Ever since Chronicles (missed the opportunity), I've thought about the concept of the Quest-exclusive characters being sprinkled throughout the series' various settings.

Say, if I could ask you something AND tell you something:

I was wondering if you could help me reblog this post I posted last night:

https://puyohero.tumblr.com/post/165883044490/holy-crap-schezos-fighting-panotty-and

Also, I wanted to TELL you that I came across something VERY interesting.

According to Japan, there IS a clear-cut timeline for Madou Monogatari and Puyo Puyo which links the two together quite seamlessly.

I found it via the tweet below.

https://twitter.com/andrearitsu/status/913928012890038272

Honestly, this person may be a bigger of a fan of Puyo and Madou than me.

 

[warelander]

Honestly, I feel that things like THAT might be the result of "leftovers" from the early stages of PP7's development. Honestly, a LOT of stuff implies that PP7 might not have even taken place in the series' equivalent of the "real world" (Ringo's dimension). If anything, it seems that the original setting of PP7 would have been just as (if not MORE) magical as Primp. Not to mention Ringo's outfits in Chibi and Deka form, as well as Arle and the Fever-era kids returning to their original clothing while Henshin is going on.

Could you give me some examples? Because the only thing that comes to my mind is this early artwork of Ringo :

Even there the setting strikes me as distinctively modern and ''real worldish''.

Oh, I see. Thanks! Out of curiosity, does Draco ever come across Sig to say that about him or is she still recorded as never interacting with him yet?

As of now they have never interacted.

Ever since Chronicles (missed the opportunity), I've thought about the concept of the Quest-exclusive characters being sprinkled throughout the series' various settings.

Ah yeah, I remember saying that I'd want that instead of the hideously generic Chronicle NPCs and I still stand by that.

I was wondering if you could help me reblog this post I posted last night:

https://puyohero.tumblr.com/post/165883044490/holy-crap-schezos-fighting-panotty-and

Alright then, though I should stress that the Anniversary games in particular tend to have a lot of these kind of match ups, where supposedly weak characters can beat the main charas with little effort, which I like, since it makes them more then just cannon fodder, plus there's just something uplifting to see someone like Draco get a well deserved win against Arle.

Also, I wanted to TELL you that I came across something VERY interesting.

According to Japan, there IS a clear-cut timeline for Madou Monogatari and Puyo Puyo which links the two together quite seamlessly.

I found it via the tweet below.

https://twitter.com/andrearitsu/status/913928012890038272

Honestly, this person may be a bigger of a fan of Puyo and Madou than me.

Michikusa Ibun being a connecting point between the two series is well known, but I would have liked more clarity on how some of the games fit into the order that they are in, particulary Minna, but I'd appreciate if this timeline was officially acknowledged as correct, especially since it would finally confirm for good that 15th is canon, unlike what some think.

 

[puyokid]

Could you give me some examples? Because the only thing that comes to my mind is this early artwork of Ringo :

Even there the setting strikes me as distinctively modern and ''real worldish''.

Well, first things first. The concept art. The fact that Ringo was going to be a Magical Girl makes me wonder...was PP7 even going to take place in Suzuran? Maybe it would have taken place in some neighboring town of Primp's.

There's also Henshin itself, which occurs in a game that takes place in the real world, with barely an explanation as to how EVERYONE can utilize the spell or how it even came to be. From what you told me, the Transformation spell mentioned by Lemres in Fever 2 is NOT the same spell that would appear in PP7. To me, it's a bit surprising to see that characters in-game even ACKNOWLEDGE the spell's existence considering how much of a cash-grab game PP7 more or less felt like.

Also, as I've mentioned before, Ringo's appearances during Henshin. I mean, they don't strike you as somewhat "otherworldly"? I mean, I suppose her 'Deka' form could be the result of her wanting to be a pop singer in the future, but what's up with her 'Chibi' form? There's also the fact that both forms seem to greatly resemble Ringo's early concept design.

Once again, Arle and the Fever-era cast (bar Lemres) seem to have...unusual outfit changes during Henshin. I mean, why not just let everyone wear their normal clothes in their normal appearances?

There's more on my mind about it, but the whole thing has me overthinking it so much, I can't even think of the other things that make me wonder about what PP7 was truly intended to be. Still, I wonder how NO ONE has supposedly found the book from where this scan came from.

Ah yeah, I remember saying that I'd want that instead of the hideously generic Chronicle NPCs and I still stand by that.

And I also stand by your decision as well. That's even why I mentioned in my last post that Chronicles probably would have been a pretty decent time to add the Quest-exclusive characters to the mainstream games.

Alright then, though I should stress that the Anniversary games in particular tend to have a lot of these kind of match ups, where supposedly weak characters can beat the main charas with little effort, which I like, since it makes them more then just cannon fodder, plus there's just something uplifting to see someone like Draco get a well deserved win against Arle.

Oh, yeah. You have a point there. I mean, I don't know if this is such a good example, but look at the people characters like Dongurigaeru and Onion Pixy end up facing in the Anniversary games. That being said, that list of people even includes the likes of Satan (15th/20th/Chronicles), Ecolo (20th/Chronicles), and Rafisol (Chronicles). Characters who are known to wield the power to alter reality itself.

Michikusa Ibun being a connecting point between the two series is well known, but I would have liked more clarity on how some of the games fit into the order that they are in, particularly Minna, but I'd appreciate if this timeline was officially acknowledged as correct, especially since it would finally confirm for good that 15th is canon, unlike what some think.

Honestly, there are some games that I question their placement in the 'timeline', as Saturn Madou is said to take place AFTER Yo~n, although Lagnus is already shown to be residing in Arle's dimension by the time the latter game has taken place. Then again, Lagnus wasn't exactly "playable" in the console versions of that game, so maybe the timeline goes by the console versions of the games?

As for Minna, there ARE admittedly a majority of SUN elements in that game. I mean, you can't exactly deny that.

In terms of 15th, I hope they would count Arle's wish canon at the very least, so we at least have a sliver of hope that we'll see Arle's world again.

Anyways, the person who posted this states that this is straight from Japan, and that they did not make this timeline themselves, so...

Say, you know what I wonder? Does BOX and/or any of the Nazo Puyo games fit into any of this?

BTW, I hope you're not bothered by me asking, but I posted a number of things on Tumblr. Mostly because I'm planning to cleanup my PC, so with that I decided to post the things I WAS planning to save for later. Anyways, could I trouble you to reblog them?

 

[warelander]

Well, first things first. The concept art. The fact that Ringo was going to be a Magical Girl makes me wonder...was PP7 even going to take place in Suzuran? Maybe it would have taken place in some neighboring town of Primp's.

I would have much rather had that actually.

There's also Henshin itself, which occurs in a game that takes place in the real world, with barely an explanation as to how EVERYONE can utilize the spell or how it even came to be. From what you told me, the Transformation spell mentioned by Lemres in Fever 2 is NOT the same spell that would appear in PP7. To me, it's a bit surprising to see that characters in-game even ACKNOWLEDGE the spell's existence considering how much of a cash-grab game PP7 more or less felt like.

Also, as I've mentioned before, Ringo's appearances during Henshin. I mean, they don't strike you as somewhat "otherworldly"? I mean, I suppose her 'Deka' form could be the result of her wanting to be a pop singer in the future, but what's up with her 'Chibi' form? There's also the fact that both forms seem to greatly resemble Ringo's early concept design.

Once again, Arle and the Fever-era cast (bar Lemres) seem to have...unusual outfit changes during Henshin. I mean, why not just let everyone wear their normal clothes in their normal appearances?

There's more on my mind about it, but the whole thing has me overthinking it so much, I can't even think of the other things that make me wonder about what PP7 was truly intended to be. Still, I wonder how NO ONE has supposedly found the book from where this scan came from.

Even then supernatural people in more real-worldish worlds is hardly unheard of in media, same goes for supernatural elements in such worlds in general. Honestly all of this strikes me as very speculative.

As for Minna, there ARE admittedly a majority of SUN elements in that game. I mean, you can't exactly deny that.

What SUN elements do you mean? I don't recall much, but it has been forever since I last played Minna.

Anyways, the person who posted this states that this is straight from Japan, and that they did not make this timeline themselves, so...

They said that they got it from Wikipedia, a site where anyone can edit and thus claim any type of BS as fact, some citation on how it's seemingly official would have been nice.

BTW, I hope you're not bothered by me asking, but I posted a number of things on Tumblr. Mostly because I'm planning to cleanup my PC, so with that I decided to post the things I WAS planning to save for later. Anyways, could I trouble you to reblog them?

I reblogged most of em'.

 

[puyokid]

Even then supernatural people in more real-worldish worlds is hardly unheard of in media, same goes for supernatural elements in such worlds in general. Honestly all of this strikes me as very speculative.

Well, I suppose you might have a point there. Still though, something about it all just doesn't sit right with me. Like I said before, looking that at that piece of early concept art for PP7, it really makes me wonder if the game would have essentially taken place in Amitie's overall dimension, albeit in a new town. Also, with no explanation as to how Henshin came to be in-universe, everything just doesn't feel coherent, for lack of a better word.

What SUN elements do you mean? I don't recall much, but it has been forever since I last played Minna.

Well, I'm not going to say that my reasons are sound here. Like, at all. But aside from the cast of characters, I suppose there's the sound clips, the settings, the character designs. As well as the overall tone of the game. It just gives me that SUN follow-up vibe.

They said that they got it from Wikipedia, a site where anyone can edit and thus claim any type of BS as fact, some citation on how it's seemingly official would have been nice.

Aw, darn. Really? Well, never mind. To think, I thought it was cited from SEGA themselves or something.

I reblogged most of em'.

Oh, for real? Thank you!

Um...listen, If you don't mind me asking this, there is one other post I'd like to ask if it could be reblogged. It's related to Yo~n's opening FMV.

Also, I have two questions for you, if don't mind me asking them.

1. Since that timeline thing might not entirely be fact, what would you see as the "true timeline"? You don't have to put effort into answering this if you don't want to.

2. Uh, you reblogged the Lagnus/Dragon pic, right? If so, this question will be a little easier to ask.

Basically, do you remember my question about whether or not the characters who haven't been playable in a while should be NPCs you can interact with, right? Well, do you think Dragon could be used as "transportation" (depending on the game) like the flying squirrels of Big Kindergarten Kids rather than be a playable character like he was in Yo~n (and Tsu, to an extent)?

I have a follow-up question to this, but I'll ask it later, so as to save you the trouble.

 

[warelander]

Also, with no explanation as to how Henshin came to be in-universe, everything just doesn't feel coherent, for lack of a better word.

Suzuran in general strikes me as very randomly put together and not very cohesive, outside of it being somewhat real worldish.

Well, I'm not going to say that my reasons are sound here. Like, at all. But aside from the cast of characters, I suppose there's the sound clips, the settings, the character designs. As well as the overall tone of the game. It just gives me that SUN follow-up vibe.

To each their own, I just don't see it myself.

Aw, darn. Really? Well, never mind. To think, I thought it was cited from SEGA themselves or something.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know how the Wikipedia article states that this timeline exists and trying to hunt down sources would be useless since I don't understand japanese, it could be true, I just would have liked more of an explaination from this person as to how the article states such a timeline exists officially, since I simply don't trust Wikipedia on it's own.

Um...listen, If you don't mind me asking this, there is one other post I'd like to ask if it could be reblogged. It's related to Yo~n's opening FMV.

kay

1. Since that timeline thing might not entirely be fact, what would you see as the "true timeline"? You don't have to put effort into answering this if you don't want to.

In my case it would go like this :

Madou Monogatari ARS : Schezo's Story
Madou Monogatari ARS : Arle's Story
Madou Monogatari 1
Madou Monogatari ARS : Rulue's Story
Madou Monogatari 2
Madou Monogatari 3
Madou Monogatari Final Test
Madou Monogatari Secret of Elysium
Madou Monogatari Michikusa Ibun
Puyo Puyo
Saturn Madou Monogatari
Puyo Puyo Tsu
Madou Monogatari The Tower of the Magician
Puyo Puyo SUN
Puyo Puyo YON
Puyo Puyo BOX
Minna de Puyo Puyo
Puyo Puyo Fever
Puyo Puyo Fever 2
Puyo Puyo 15th Anniversary
Puyo Puyo 7
Puyo Puyo 20th Anniversary
Puyo Puyo Tetris
Puyo Puyo Chronicle
Puyo Puyo Quest
-Much, much later-
Puyo Puyo Gaiden : Puyo Wars

The Nazo games would just fall between the Puyo games, sorted by release order (I don't know the exact dates), other then that I have no clue where any of the spin offs would fall in, PPQ is the easiest spin off to place, since the inclusion of the Tetris crew or Ally keep pushing it ahead of their debut games.

Secret of Elysium is rarely acknowledged in japanese sources, since the japanese release never came to be and it ended up as a Korea exclusive title and frankly I don't think you'd lose much from cutting it out of the timeline, but I'm still counting it, Hanamaru Dai Youchienji on the other hand is at least in my eyes, not canon, since it is just an extremely different retelling of Madou 1.

The Saturn game is placed where it is because Satan in his diary recalls one the one time he brought Puyos into the Madou world and words it in a way that implies that TSU and later games haven't happened yet, not to mention Witch meets Schezo for the first time here.

2. Uh, you reblogged the Lagnus/Dragon pic, right? If so, this question will be a little easier to ask.

Basically, do you remember my question about whether or not the characters who haven't been playable in a while should be NPCs you can interact with, right? Well, do you think Dragon could be used as "transportation" (depending on the game) like the flying squirrels of Big Kindergarten Kids rather than be a playable character like he was in Yo~n (and Tsu, to an extent)?

You mean as a fast travel option in future RPG modes? I wouldn't mind it (even if I'd much rather have Baldlanders in that role), but the previous RPG modes have all been designed with world map structure, which removes any need for such a feature, so there would have to be a major change in design mentality to make it more needed.

 

[puyokid]

Suzuran in general strikes me as very randomly put together and not very cohesive, outside of it being somewhat real worldish.

Honestly, the fact that Suzuran is set in Puyo Puyo's interpretation of (more or less) the real world makes me believe that SEGA probably thinks that they don't NEED to give Suzuran (and Ringo's dimension by extension) any real background in comparison to Arle and Amitie's dimensions for that very reason. It's (more or less) OUR reality, as interpreted by Puyo Puyo.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know how the Wikipedia article states that this timeline exists and trying to hunt down sources would be useless since I don't understand Japanese, it could be true, I just would have liked more of an explanation from this person as to how the article states such a timeline exists officially, since I simply don't trust Wikipedia on it's own.

Oh, that's what you meant. Yeah, you have a point that Wikipedia isn't all that trustworthy. Honestly, I thought you meant that the timeline thing was what was seemed sketchy to you.

In my case it would go like this :

Madou Monogatari ARS : Schezo's Story
Madou Monogatari ARS : Arle's Story
Madou Monogatari 1
Madou Monogatari ARS : Rulue's Story
Madou Monogatari 2
Madou Monogatari 3
Madou Monogatari Final Test
Madou Monogatari Secret of Elysium
Madou Monogatari Michikusa Ibun
Puyo Puyo
Saturn Madou Monogatari
Puyo Puyo Tsu
Madou Monogatari The Tower of the Magician
Puyo Puyo SUN
Puyo Puyo YON
Puyo Puyo BOX
Minna de Puyo Puyo
Puyo Puyo Fever
Puyo Puyo Fever 2
Puyo Puyo 15th Anniversary
Puyo Puyo 7
Puyo Puyo 20th Anniversary
Puyo Puyo Tetris
Puyo Puyo Chronicle
Puyo Puyo Quest
-Much, much later-
Puyo Puyo Gaiden : Puyo Wars

The Nazo games would just fall between the Puyo games, sorted by release order (I don't know the exact dates), other then that I have no clue where any of the spin offs would fall in, PPQ is the easiest spin off to place, since the inclusion of the Tetris crew or Ally keep pushing it ahead of their debut games.

Secret of Elysium is rarely acknowledged in japanese sources, since the japanese release never came to be and it ended up as a Korea exclusive title and frankly I don't think you'd lose much from cutting it out of the timeline, but I'm still counting it, Hanamaru Dai Youchienji on the other hand is at least in my eyes, not canon, since it is just an extremely different retelling of Madou 1.

The Saturn game is placed where it is because Satan in his diary recalls one the one time he brought Puyos into the Madou world and words it in a way that implies that TSU and later games haven't happened yet, not to mention Witch meets Schezo for the first time here.

I have to admit, this is certainly something. I almost forgot about how Witch meets Schezo for the first time in Madou Saturn, so of course one should take that into account. Well, if you don't mind, here's my take.

Madou ARS : Schezo's Story
Madou ARS : Arle's Story
Madou 1
Madou ARS : Rulue's Story
Madou 2
Madou 3
Saturn Madou
Tower of the Magician
Secret of Elysium
The Final Test
Michikusa Ibun
Puyo Puyo
Nazo 1
Nazo 2
Arle no Roux
Tsu
Super Nazo 1
Super Nazo 2
SUN
Minna
Yo~n
BOX
Fever 1
Fever 2
15th Anniversary
PP7
20th Anniversary
Puyo Tetris
Puyo Chronicles
Puyo Quest
-Somewhere in the very, very, very, very, VERY far future-
Puyo Puyo Gaiden : Puyo Wars

In the case of the Nazo games, I decided to check their release dates, and for the most part they seem to take place during the first 3 mainstream games. As for the Madou placements, I always figured that Elysium took place BEFORE The Final Test, as a video I've seen of the final boss and end credits to that game reveals that the Phantom God exists by the ending to Elysium.

Also, Saturn Madou. Considering Lagnus and Schezo/Witch, I'm certain it's taking place long before the likes of TSU, SUN, Minna, Yo~n, and BOX.

Tower of the Magician...well, until I find some other evidence, I'd like to place that before the Phantom God if you don't mind.

You mean as a fast travel option in future RPG modes? I wouldn't mind it (even if I'd much rather have Baldlanders in that role), but the previous RPG modes have all been designed with world map structure, which removes any need for such a feature, so there would have to be a major change in design mentality to make it more needed.

Yeah, basically. I'm not going to lie to you, my idea would probably have Chico as an NPC most of the time, though she and Dragon would get their occasional playable dues. Honestly, I feel as if my idea of Dragon being the primary mode of transportation would have been VERY helpful in BOX's Quest mode. As far I know about that game, Arle and Carbuncle had to travel pretty long distances.

BTW, two things.

1. I don't suppose you know what exactly the story to BOX was, do you? I'm not to clear of it myself, so I just always had the headcanon that Satan was holding another Puyo tournament (I've had the headcanon that Tsu's story (all versions) was a glorified one to get Arle's attention) and Rally Mode is the extension of said tournament in BOX's story. Specifically, Rally Mode would be where you can always re-enter the tournament for a bigger reward.

2. I take it you saw my Tarutaru/Rider post on Tumblr, right? I just wanted to ask you for your thoughts on what I wrote about Tarutaru and Rider's relationship.

 

[warelander]

Honestly, the fact that Suzuran is set in Puyo Puyo's interpretation of (more or less) the real world makes me believe that SEGA probably thinks that they don't NEED to give Suzuran (and Ringo's dimension by extension) any real background in comparison to Arle and Amitie's dimensions for that very reason. It's (more or less) OUR reality, as interpreted by Puyo Puyo.

Probably, I honestly always disliked the idea of adding yet another world as is and frankly Suzuran getting any type of noticable screentime again in only a single game (PPT) probably says a thing or two about whether or not the games themselves even care about it.

I always figured that Elysium took place BEFORE The Final Test, as a video I've seen of the final boss and end credits to that game reveals that the Phantom God exists by the ending to Elysium.

I never got what that ending screen was about, especially since from what I heard SOE is supposedly meant to be a direct sequel to Final Test, frankly this is one where I'm not at all sure what they were going for and where to place it.

Yeah, basically. I'm not going to lie to you, my idea would probably have Chico as an NPC most of the time, though she and Dragon would get their occasional playable dues. Honestly, I feel as if my idea of Dragon being the primary mode of transportation would have been VERY helpful in BOX's Quest mode. As far I know about that game, Arle and Carbuncle had to travel pretty long distances.

Eh, I guess, though again if we were to see something like this again in a modern game then I'd much rather have Baldlanders in that role, since I care a lot more about him and one wallpaper for Fever 2 even shows Feli riding on him, so it's especially appropriate.

1. I don't suppose you know what exactly the story to BOX was, do you? I'm not to clear of it myself, so I just always had the headcanon that Satan was holding another Puyo tournament (I've had the headcanon that Tsu's story (all versions) was a glorified one to get Arle's attention) and Rally Mode is the extension of said tournament in BOX's story. Specifically, Rally Mode would be where you can always re-enter the tournament for a bigger reward.

I only know for sure that it's another ''Satan tries to get into Arle's pants'' plot, no clue about any specifics.

2. I take it you saw my Tarutaru/Rider post on Tumblr, right? I just wanted to ask you for your thoughts on what I wrote about Tarutaru and Rider's relationship.

It's a role that I can easily see him take, even if their on-screen interactions in the series have been limited at most.

 

[puyokid]

Probably, I honestly always disliked the idea of adding yet another world as is and frankly Suzuran getting any type of noticeable screentime again in only a single game (PPT) probably says a thing or two about whether or not the games themselves even care about it.

As you know, I've already made my thoughts on Suzuran's existence made, so I guess I don't have to go into detail. At best, I'll just say that SEGA made their bed adding that place, so if they're not going to expand on the place with the ideas I suggested quite some time ago, then whatever. Heck, as much as I REALLY hate to say it, even Primp is starting to be in the same boat as Suzuran (by barely being featured as the main setting to the games nowadays), so when dimension-hopping is done with as a plot point, PLEASE call me.

I never got what that ending screen was about, especially since from what I heard SOE is supposedly meant to be a direct sequel to Final Test, frankly this is one where I'm not at all sure what they were going for and where to place it.

Yeah, I can't blame you, and considering that game exclusive to Korea (Heaven knows why), I can't help but doubt that we're EVER going to get an explanation to that game's overall plot.

Eh, I guess, though again if we were to see something like this again in a modern game then I'd much rather have Baldlanders in that role, since I care a lot more about him and one wallpaper for Fever 2 even shows Feli riding on him, so it's especially appropriate.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'd love to see Baldanders in that role myself. Mostly because he'd probably give the concept a more "humorous" edge to it in comparison to Chico's Dragon, in the sense that he'd race across land (and maybe even SEA!) just to help you get to where you need to go. In terms of Dragon, I feel that he'd be more traditional, and it would be (IMO) a fairly decent excuse to make him (and possibly Chico herself) a prominent figure in the Puyo series again.

BTW, I saw that Fever 2 wallpaper of Baldanders and Feli you posted. Awesome stuff!

I only know for sure that it's another ''Satan tries to get into Arle's pants'' plot, no clue about any specifics.

Oh, I see. Well...once again, until I can find something concrete, I'm just going with my headcanon of one half of BOX's story being a sort of precursor to Minna's events, and the other half being Satan holding a Puyo tournament in which EVERY Puyo/Madou-exclusive character ends up entering thus resulting in BOX's Rally Mode.

It's a role that I can easily see him take, even if their on-screen interactions in the series have been limited at most.

Yeah, I figured. Honestly, I wish I could have seen Tarutaru interact with the rest of the Madou-era cast (outside of Arle and Carbuncle) and PP7's cast of characters.

Actually, I'd like to ask you something. In the event that Tarutaru wasn't removed from the mainstream games the way he was, do you think he would be prominent enough to be kept in every game like Klug, Lemres and Feli? Or would he be "saved" for the Anniversary games like Rider, Ms. Accord, etc. have been these days?

 

[warelander]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'd love to see Baldanders in that role myself. Mostly because he'd probably give the concept a more "humorous" edge to it in comparison to Chico's Dragon, in the sense that he'd race across land (and maybe even SEA!) just to help you get to where you need to go. In terms of Dragon, I feel that he'd be more traditional, and it would be (IMO) a fairly decent excuse to make him (and possibly Chico herself) a prominent figure in the Puyo series again.

At the end of the day it's all just a matter of preference.

BTW, I saw that Fever 2 wallpaper of Baldanders and Feli you posted. Awesome stuff!

It is probably my favorite of the Fever 2 wallpapers and a great example of why I find the Fever 2/15th art style to be very underappreciated in many places.

Actually, I'd like to ask you something. In the event that Tarutaru wasn't removed from the mainstream games the way he was, do you think he would be prominent enough to be kept in every game like Klug, Lemres and Feli? Or would he be "saved" for the Anniversary games like Rider, Ms. Accord, etc. have been these days?

I'm very confident to say that he'd be in the same position as Rider is now, showing up in most games, but always in danger whenever the games need to make place on the roster, because it's always Fever characters that end up getting cut in those situations, one of many reasons why I keep saying that the Fever site of the franchise get's regulary screwed over.

 

[puyokid]

It is probably my favorite of the Fever 2 wallpapers and a great example of why I find the Fever 2/15th art style to be very underappreciated in many places.

If you could please remind me, PP7 was (more or less) the final game to use the specific cartoony art-style Fever 2 went with, am I right?

I'm very confident to say that he'd be in the same position as Rider is now, showing up in most games, but always in danger whenever the games need to make place on the roster, because it's always Fever characters that end up getting cut in those situations, one of many reasons why I keep saying that the Fever site of the franchise get's regularly screwed over.

Yeah, I'd have to say the same. Tarutaru even gives off that "vibe" that he'd be saved for the anniversary games, if anything.

Speaking of which, I have another question for you. This one you don't need to put much effort in if you don't want to. Basically, in the event that Tarutaru was in 15th Anniversary, what would his goal be, and who would be his opponents?

 

[warelander]

If you could please remind me, PP7 was (more or less) the final game to use the specific cartoony art-style Fever 2 went with, am I right?

The last full game yeah, though if we want to be technical Quest still uses some reused sprites for the cut Fever characters and it shows how much the style has changed, especially in this manzai with Ringo and Baldlanders :


They really don't look like they should be in the same scene.

Speaking of which, I have another question for you. This one you don't need to put much effort in if you don't want to. Basically, in the event that Tarutaru was in 15th Anniversary, what would his goal be, and who would be his opponents?

He doesn't have much in terms of established goals, though I guess getting Raffine to accept his advances or finding a way to impress her would be the way to go, given his obvious cush on her.

As for opponents it's important to remember that we are talking about 15th Anni. which was before the series largely stiffened itself into just always using the same character combinations over and over again, so everyone would be fair game. In terms of personal preferences Klug would be the main one for me, since he's the only one of Tarutaru's classmates that the big guy never got to interact with.

 

[puyokid]

The last full game yeah, though if we want to be technical Quest still uses some reused sprites for the cut Fever characters and it shows how much the style has changed, especially in this manzai with Ringo and Baldlanders :


They really don't look like they should be in the same scene.

Good heavens, would it kill SEGA to at least update character art? Mostly the removed Fever-era characters than anything else since they've obviously got more resources to work with.

He doesn't have much in terms of established goals, though I guess getting Raffine to accept his advances or finding a way to impress her would be the way to go, given his obvious crush on her.

Yeah, this is precisely what I expected Tarutaru's story to mostly be about. I mean, I personally wouldn't have a problem with this honestly.

As for opponents, it's important to remember that we are talking about 15th Anni. which was before the series largely stiffened itself into just always using the same character combinations over and over again, so everyone would be fair game. In terms of personal preferences, Klug would be the main one for me, since he's the only one of Tarutaru's classmates that the big guy never got to interact with.

Yeah, we REALLY shouldn't forget that. That being said, I'd like to give my thoughts on this if you don't mind. I'd like to warn you that I've had all this in mind for a LONG time, so please bear with me, OK?

Spoiler: Rider

Rider - The two would exchange pleasantries, and Tarutaru would ask Rider why she's entering the tournament, with her stating that she'd like to do something about her horns once and for all. This leads Rider to ask Tarutaru what he entered the tournament for. He'd request for Rider to keep it between them, but he entered for the sake of impressing Raffine. Rider would be a little taken aback by this, as she didn't really know Tarutaru liked Raffine in that manner. He states that once he gets the medal prize, maybe he can wish for Raffine to fall for him. Rider wonders if it would be "unnatural" for Raffine to just fall for him via magic, but Tarutaru would shrug off the notion, not thinking much of it.

Spoiler: Sig

Sig - Tarutaru would take on Sig next. The two would greet each other as usual. Tarutaru would ask Sig whether or not he likes Primp Magic Academy so far since arriving there in Fever 2. Sig states he likes the school a lot. He's already made friends with a lot of people (such as Taru himself, Amitie, and Rider), and states that they're some of the few who aren't as bothered by his love of bugs, which makes things even better. Taru suggests that since they're such good friends, they should give it their all for this Puyo match. Sig obliges and the battle begins.

Spoiler: Amitie

Amitie - Taru's next opponent is Amitie. She greets Taru and states that she's so excited that all of her friends could attend the tournament and asks Taru what he plans to wish for at the end if he wins. He's about to tell her the same thing he told Rider earlier, but stops himself short. He thinks to himself that Amitie is his friend, and as sweet of a girl she may be, he can't afford to run the risk of having her accidentally blurt out to Raffine that he 'likes likes' her.

To make up for this, he simply tells Amitie that it's a secret, and if she can beat him in their Puyo match, he'll tell her. This causes Amitie to get even more interested in what he plans to wish for, and declares that she'll win no matter what. Taru mutters under his breath, that no matter who wins, he needs to bolt away from there as fast as he can after the match is over.

Spoiler: Klug

Klug - Taru's next opponent is none other than Klug. He greets Taru and compliments him a bit, stating that Taru must be doing quite well in the tournament if he's manged to reach him of all people by now, and states that he should count himself very honored that someone of his intelligence has taken time out of his proceedings through the tournament to grace him with his presence. Taru ignores Klug's boasting and simply greets him. He asks Klug if he's happened to come across Raffine at any point during the tournament, to which Klug indignantly replies that he hasn't.

He asks Taru why would he want to see that "pink-haired troglodyte" anyways. Taru asks what does he mean by "troglodyte" to which Klug replies that she's ignorant and old-fashioned. This offends Taru greatly, stating that he'll defend Raffine's honor. Klug, not knowing what he did wrong, gets taken by surprise, as he's never seen Taru get so worked up like this. He worries that this battle might be a bit tougher than he expected...

Spoiler: Ms. Accord (and Popoi)

Ms. Accord - Taru's next opponent (to his surprise, no less) is Ms. Accord. She's very impressed that Taru got so far in the tournament. She notes that Taru looks a bit confused, and wonders if something's wrong. Taru states that nothing's wrong, but he's curious as to why Accord is attending the tournament. She gives him the answer she's given the rest of the Primp Magic Academy, which is that she'd like to see her students' progress in action, and she simply thought it'd be fun.

Taru decides that now would be a pretty good time to ask Accord about something that Raffine told him some time ago about a VERY strange dream she had, that her puppet Popoi once grew almost 10x his original size and that she fought him. He asks if she knows anything about that, to which Accord replies that some kids just have active imaginations. Taru states that Raffine claimed that it all felt so real to her. Popoi mutters that that mallet must not have done its job as thoroughly as they thought. Taru asks Popoi if he just said something, to which he replies that he was just thinking out loud. He reminds Taru and Accord that they have a Puyo match to get underway, don't they? They're both embarrassed at this, and begin the battle.

Spoiler: Suketoudara

Suketoudara - The next opponent Tarutaru faces is the funky fish, Suketoudara from the Madou-era of the series. To say that Taru is shocked at the sight of an Alaskan Pollock with human arms and legs is nothing short of an understatement. He asks what kind of creature he is and where he came from as he's sure that this thing is definitely NOT native to Primp. Suketoudara angrily states that for his information, he's not a "thing". He's the world's best dancing maniac this side of...wherever this place is. Honestly, even he doesn't know how he got to Primp. Taru wonders if he heard him right after he said that he's a dancer. He tells Taru that he heard that right, prompting Taru to ask him for some dancing lessons if he wins their Puyo match. Suket tells him that even if he loses, he'll be more than happy to give him lessons. Suket asks (out of curiosity) why exactly he wants lessons.

He normally wouldn't ask why, as he gives them for free, but there's something about Taru that prompts him to ask. Taru shyly admits that it's for a girl, and Suket asks who the lucky little lady is. He says that it's a close friend of his. Well, he thinks they're close, at least. Suket tells him that with his dance moves, he'll be getting girls left and right. Taru states that he doesn't know about that, but he states that they should get the battle underway.

Spoiler: Rulue

Rulue - The second-to-last opponent that Taru faces is none other than the Fighting Queen herself, Rulue. She takes note of his large, imposing frame, and wonders if he's from Primp. He declares that he is and he likewise asks her the same question, prompting her to answer that she is not. Honestly, she's not sure how she got to Primp. She says that the last thing she remembers is playing a rather intense game of Puyo with her darling Satan, then a bright light engulfed them and then a sudden crash-landing into Primp, and here they are. Rulue notices that everyone in the area seems to be playing Puyo, thus Taru informs her that she's in the middle of a Puyo-playing tournament. She's taken aback by this for a bit, but gets composed once she realizes that Satan must be here too, if they were both caught in that light.

Eventually, she begins to notice that Taru seems a bit distracted which offends her somewhat as she doesn't take kindly to that sort of thing. Taru nervously states that he wasn't trying to offend her, so she asks why he's being so aloof, leading him to admit that the reason he entered the tournament was for the sake of impressing a girl that he likes, but he's not too confident that said person likes him in that way. Rulue notices that his situation sort of reminds her of the one she has with Satan and (quoting Yoda) gives Taru the simple advice, "Do or do not, there is not try." Taru's confused by this, to which she clarifies that Taru should just go for broke. If this girl likes him, then good for him. If not, at least he won't have any regrets. She asks what this girl is like, to which he replies that she's beautiful, refined, and powerful. Rulue thinks to herself that this girl sounds a lot like someone she knows. As a matter of fact, she thinks that Taru really reminds her of Minotauros. She declares that Taru should have a Puyo battle with her, so she can see if Taru is really worthy of this girl's caliber. To which, Taru is ready and willing to battle.

Spoiler: Raffine

Raffine -Taru's final opponent is none other than the object of his affection, Raffine. Taru can't believe his bad luck hat she was his final opponent. Raffine likewise, is surprised to see Tarutaru of all people make to the championship battle. He starts to get nervous about the prospect of going up against Raffine, thinking that she won't be happy to lose to him, but at the same time, she'd feel offended if Taru threw the match for her. This goes on for a bit, before Raffine shouts that Tarutaru needs to get his head in the game.

She claims that while Taru may be one of her friends, she has no intention of holding back. She reminds him to give it his all, or she won't be happy with him. It's through this that Taru realizes why he likes her so much. It's her confidence and conviction that attracts him to her. He feels that if there was ever a time to tell Raffine how he feels about her, this is it. He finally confesses his feelings, leading Raffine to become quite shocked. She ends up getting quite red in the face from embarrassment stating that if he's trying to keep her off her game, it won't work. He tries to explain that this isn't a trick, but she'll have none of it. She states that the battle begins now.

Spoiler: Tarutaru's ending

Tarutaru's ending - Tarutaru has won the tournament, and he recalls how Raffine wasn't as mad as he thought she'd be. As a matter of fact, he thinks that either he was hearing things, or she really muttered under her breath that he's kind of cute. He dismisses it as just his imagination, but he's still happy about it all the same. Ms. Accord bestows the magic medal upon him, and asks what he wants to wish for. He's prepared to wish for Raffine to fall in love with him, but he recalls his day attending the tournament (ESPECIALLY his conversation with Rider and Rulue) and realizes that it won't be genuine love from Raffine that he's experiencing. So with that, he changes his wish to be that he and everyone he cares about can enjoy their lives to the fullest with no regrets. Ms. Accord and Popoi are very proud of Tarutaru for making such a selfless wish.

 

[warelander]

Sounds good, though I should point out that 15th has a pattern in how it uses the Madou charas, Arle can show up whenever, but the other ones always appear as the 4th and 8th oppenents in every story, with Arle, Satan, Rulue, Schezo and Zoh Daimaoh being the only ones who appear as final opponents, so I'd put Suketoudara as the 4th opponent and switch Rulue and Raffine around, just to fit into the pattern.

I know that I usually complain about patterns in how the characters are used but 15th is a case where I actually find it to be a good thing, since it guarantees that characters from both eras cross paths and that you can't pull stunts like Arle's 20th story.

 

[puyokid]

Sounds good, though I should point out that 15th has a pattern in how it uses the Madou charas, Arle can show up whenever, but the other ones always appear as the 4th and 8th opponents in every story, with Arle, Satan, Rulue, Schezo and Zoh Daimaoh being the only ones who appear as final opponents, so I'd put Suketoudara as the 4th opponent and switch Rulue and Raffine around, just to fit into the pattern.

Wow, I NEVER once noticed this detail until you told me. Also, I WAS considering making Suketoudara the 4th opponent, but there was something telling me it would seem like odd ordering.

I know that I usually complain about patterns in how the characters are used, but 15th is a case where I actually find it to be a good thing, since it guarantees that characters from both eras cross paths and that you can't pull stunts like Arle's 20th story.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Heck, even if we had 3 eras by the time 20th was released, SEGA still could have had 20th do what 15th did. I mean, PP7's cast consists of what? 4 characters? That being said, SEGA doesn't have much in the way of an excuse for the stunts they pulled in that game.

BTW, what did you think of my take on Tarutaru's hypothetical 15th story?

 

[warelander]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Heck, even if we had 3 eras by the time 20th was released, SEGA still could have had 20th do what 15th did. I mean, PP7's cast consists of what? 4 characters? That being said, SEGA doesn't have much in the way of an excuse for the stunts they pulled in that game.

The thing is I think that 20th for the most part isn't too bad about a lot of that stuff, it's just that comparing it to 15th always serves as a reminder of things that I just find odd or don't personally like. I mentioned before that the whole ''Arle is looking for a way home'' subplot hasn't been brought up since 15th, this can easily be hand waved by saying that her ending in that game is the canon one, but even then her entire history with the town in never really acknowledged anymore these days and I find that to be a shame, because as I said before, 15th elaborates a bit on Arle's life in Primp and I think it would have been nice if future game followed up on that and showed some of it.

BTW, what did you think of my take on Tarutaru's hypothetical 15th story?

Sounds about what I'd expect from a anniversary game story and I mean that in a positive way.

 

[puyokid]

The thing is, I think that 20th for the most part isn't too bad about a lot of that stuff, it's just that comparing it to 15th always serves as a reminder of things that I just find odd or don't personally like. I mentioned before that the whole ''Arle is looking for a way home'' subplot hasn't been brought up since 15th, this can easily be hand waved by saying that her ending in that game is the canon one, but even then her entire history with the town in never really acknowledged anymore these days and I find that to be a shame, because as I said before, 15th elaborates a bit on Arle's life in Primp and I think it would have been nice if future games followed up on that and showed some of it.

I should mention that (sadly) 20th seems to imply that Arle's ending in 15th might NOT be canon due to a one-off line from Arle in 20th. Specifically, Amitie suggests to Ringo, Risukuma, and Maguro that they should go to Arle for advice on how to return to their own dimension. From there, Arle reveals (to the 7ARS trio's disappointment) that she supposedly STILL hasn't found out how to return to her dimension, yet her closest companions (Rulue, Schezo, Satan, Suketoudara, Draco, and Witch) have been coming to Primp, resulting in her all but giving up on going home.

That being said, I find it pretty unfortunate how Arle's life in Primp and the interactions with Primp's citizens are all but nonexistent at this point. It's another thing that reminds me how the various eras of the series are unusually isolated these days.

Still, in the event that Arle's 15th ending IS canon, it still bothers me how we haven't seen Arle's world for all this time. I mean, really.

Sounds about what I'd expect from a anniversary game story and I mean that in a positive way.

Really? Thanks! Say, I'd like to ask, do you think I could post this to Tumblr? Like, do you think it'd be well-received?

 

[warelander]

I should mention that (sadly) 20th seems to imply that Arle's ending in 15th might NOT be canon due to a one-off line from Arle in 20th. Specifically, Amitie suggests to Ringo, Risukuma, and Maguro that they should go to Arle for advice on how to return to their own dimension. From there, Arle reveals (to the 7ARS trio's disappointment) that she supposedly STILL hasn't found out how to return to her dimension, yet her closest companions (Rulue, Schezo, Satan, Suketoudara, Draco, and Witch) have been coming to Primp, resulting in her all but giving up on going home.

I heard about it, incredibly lame and blatant way to just throw away a plotline by saying ''fuck it'' without any resolution, especially with how big of a deal it was to Arle in the Fever trilogy. It's also odd because Amitie's 20th story has her and Arle say that it had been a long time since they have seen each other, which would imply that Arle may have not been in town during that time, considering that Amitie is the only Primp resident that she is ever seen with these days, it also implies that Arle no longer visits the Magic School, which is kind of a sad thought.

That being said, I find it pretty unfortunate how Arle's life in Primp and the interactions with Primp's citizens are all but nonexistent at this point. It's another thing that reminds me how the various eras of the series are unusually isolated these days.

A hillariously bad example of that is in Amitie's 20th story, Sig tags along with Amitie and is fairly talkactive, but once they meet Arle he suddenly becomes dead silent, safe for a single sentence, with neither of the girls acknowledging him much at all, he's totally silent when they meet Witch, after which Ms Accord comes up as an oppenent and Sig actually talks again, but Arle is suddenly gone with no explaination given. It's like the game went out of it's way to ensure that she get's no interactions with any Primp characters (safe for that one sentence from Sig, which Arle doesn't even respond to) in this story, it's spectaculary awful.

Really? Thanks! Say, I'd like to ask, do you think I could post this to Tumblr? Like, do you think it'd be well-received?

I don't see why not.