Puyo Puyo

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by SurrealBrain, Jun 17, 2015.

  1. puyokid
    Cool

    puyokid Treasure Hunter

    Holy crud, Schezo! I mean, I don't blame him for getting beyond frustrated at his wish getting botched and all, but....damn.

    Oh, sorry. It'd be difficult for me to find due to how obscure it is and I'm pretty tired as it is, so I'll just say that promotional material made during Compile's run seemed to vaguely imply Schezo x Arle quite a fair bit, while Schezo x Witch was depicted WAY more in promo material, and almost everything else. To be fair, that was after TotM, so you know...

    Yeah, pretty much. I know, it sounds really ambitious for like this which such a huge roster of characters, but I feel like the cast lends itself to this very concept quite well. With Arle having so many adventures outside of playing Puyo, Rulue being sent to find treasures, and Schezo (unintentionally) saving the world, and Witch traveling through her own dreams, I wonder what SEGA would do with the likes of Amitie, Ringo, and the like.

    Heck, if it was combined with the concept of Chronicles' RPG mode (where you had an actual overworld to traverse upon), that would make it all the more sweet, in my opinion.
     
  2. warelander
    Mellow

    warelander Hope Rides Alone

    By that point in the story Schezo is just beyond frustrated with the running gag and yah know, I really would have liked it if future games followed up on the idea of him trying to do something about it.

    I'm gonna take your word for it, but I have seen a sizable amount of Compile Puyo promo material, magazine illustrations and so on and I have never once seen anything that implied Arle/Schezo, to be frank. I can name and show you a magazine artwork that arguably implies Rulue/Schezo, before anything Schezo/Arle related, if anything Compile seemed more fixated on pushing Satan/Arle on occassion more then any other Arle ships.

    Not sure if that would work with the idea of everyone having a story like that, I have an easier time seeing that happen in a MMARS type game, where you only have a couple stories, as opposed to at least 24, since that would lead to a lot of repeating setpieces between stories (especially Primp Town) and at least to me that's not the most desirable direction for an RPG mode.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
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  3. puyokid
    Cool

    puyokid Treasure Hunter

    And trust me, he's not the only one tired of this running gag by now either. Just like you, I also really wish SEGA would have sort of "capitalized" on the idea of Schezo's return to the Puyo franchise as a prominent character consisting of him actually TRYING to work on his..."speech impediment", rather than be resigned to it. I mean, it's not like he'll be acquiring Arle's powers anytime soon, so they could have at least let him have this, you know?

    Well, like I said. the stuff that I've seen has only VAGUELY implied Arle x Schezo. Trust me, I've seen Schezo x Witch and even Rulue x Schezo WAY more often. As for Arle x Satan, I've noticed how Compile really seemed to push that too. What's more, I've noticed how with the exception of Puyo Tsu, Arle doesn't seem as "vocal" on her dislike of Satan's advances towards her. Then again, Satan was (for the most part) more of a playboy during Compile's games than laser-focused on Arle and Carbuncle like he is in SEGA's games.

    Yeah, I thought about it last night and I figured you might be right. To be fair, I did admit that it probably be a little...ambitious of a project. Though, I will say the idea could be more reserved for all 3 ARS trios (Madou, Fever , PP7). Yes, it would also include Ringo, Risukuma, Maguro and Suzuran as a setting. While they do come from the Puyo series' "perception" of the real world (and magic probably wouldn't factor in their stories as result), I still feel that you cold do something unique with them. Like, where they lack magic abilities, science would be used in its place.

    As for stories, I thought of THIS:

    Amitie - Her story would go into how she discovered magic in the first place and why she wants to be "the world's greatest magician" by extension.
    Raffine - Her story would go into how she was even able to attend Primp Magic Academy in the first place, and her rivalry with Amitie would be established here.
    Sig - Details of his early life (as in prior to Fever 2) would be brought to light.

    Ringo - Could go into detail about her intelligence at such a young age*, as well as establish her friendship with Maguro.
    Risukuma - The exact details of his transformation into a half-squirrel/half-bear could finally be divulged.
    Maguro - One half of his story would focus on his almost "otherworldly" good looks, and how he learned how to hide it in public. The other half would be about how he and Ringo became best friends since their childhood.

    * - In the time leading up to PP7's release, as well as PPT's English localization reaffirming it, it's off-handedly brought up that Ringo is much more intelligent than her age lets on. Nowhere near Risukuma's level, but still.
     
  4. warelander
    Mellow

    warelander Hope Rides Alone

    To be honest I'm generally in an odd position when it comes to Schezo, I love the guy to bits and consider him my second favorite character (next to Sig of course), but if it were up to me many things in regards to him would be handled very differently.

    That's always been a very depending on the writer kind of thing, even in the SEGA games she can still be pretty friendly with him, particulary in 15th.

    A spiritual ''ARS 2'' featuring the Fever series main trio has always been my personal dream game for this franchise, it would do Sig and Raffine good to get that kind of spotlight again, especially if the game delves into aspects of their lifes that could use some elaboration, not to mention it could also help to make Amitie a at least slightly less shallow protagonist.
     
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  5. Magma
    Innocent

    Magma Big

    Inventory:

    Excuse me for cutting in fellas but I've had this question for a while and I'd really like to know what you guys think. What do you guys think of this somewhat forced relationship between Sonic and Puyo that Sega is trying to foster?
     
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  6. puyokid
    Cool

    puyokid Treasure Hunter

    Out of curiousity, what would you do differently with Schezo?

    BTW, there was something from Tumblr I wanted to show you in my last post, but I couldn't find it until now. Also, I'd like you to know now that even though I'm posting this link, I am in NO way trying to convince you to ship Arle and Schezo. If anything, it's mostly WHY people (and ME, admittedly included) ship the two together at all.

    http://jellipuddi.tumblr.com/post/163891478926/

    I had a feeling you'd enjoy the idea. Also, I certainly agree that Raffine and Sig need something like so as to not have them both fade away into the supporting cast. They had their own playable campaigns in Fever 2, for goodness' sake! Heck, Raffine also had her own campaign in Fever 1 as well, for that matter!

    I'd even go so far as to agree with you that even Amitie (who's the main protagonist of the Fever-era, no less), needs an "ARS" story, as she seems to have lost quite a bit of the..."substance" she had as a main protag in the Fever duology. Like, she seems less..."there", in comparison to Arle and Ringo, you know what I mean?

    Out of curiosity, I have a few questions pertaining to the last thing. Please forgive me if they're...excessive...

    1. Do you think this hypothetical "ARS 2" game should ONLY focus on the Fever-era ARS trio, while a hypothetical "ARS 3" should focus on PP7's ARS trio, or should all 6 be bundled into one game?

    2. What did you think of my suggestions for Amitie, Raffine, and Sig? You think I could have done better?

    3. Same question as #2, but with Ringo, Risukuma, and Maguro.

    4. Speaking of them, do you have any opinions on PP7's ARS trio like you did with the ARS trio of the Fever-era, or do you just not have much of an opinion regarding them?

    5. Do you think SEGA could do something unique with Suzuran like what Compile did for Arle's world and SEGA did for Primp, or do you feel like Suzuran just doesn't have much potential outside of being an interesting contrast to the series' whole magic shtick?

    You know, I've noticed it, but I've never put much thought into it. Admittedly, I was sort of ignoring it because I felt it was giving Puyo Puyo some MUCH needed exposure to the world. I mean, what better way to boost Puyo Puyo's exposure and appeal than to pair it up with the company's world-renowned mascot?

    I'll admit, it IS fairly...shallow, but I still feel like Puyo Puyo deserved just a bit more than the raw deals it kept getting prior to Puyo Tetris' localization (i.e. Dr. Robotnik's M.B.M/Kirby's Avalanche, Cranky Food Friends, the non-translated Western releases of Puyo Tsu, Puyo 1, Minna de Puyo and Fever 1 getting little to no promotion in the West, etc.).
     
  7. Magma
    Innocent

    Magma Big

    Inventory:

    In my view, I'll admit in some ways one of my weaknesses is that I tend have a hipster view of things and dislike it when things become too popular or sold out as some would say. Sonic the Hedgehog is also a series I'm not fond of in the idea of making endorsements due to the fanbase and lack of consistently good games for some time. Famous maybe but not quite world-renowned I'd say.
     
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  8. warelander
    Mellow

    warelander Hope Rides Alone

    I'm too tired from work to list out everything, but frankly a lot of the things that I tend to talk about in regards to Schezo should already give you a good idea or two.

    Uhm...kay? Not at all sure why you are showing me this and what you are expecting me to say.

    1) Since I have no strong feelings either way on whether or not PP7 ARS get's a game like that I'll just say whatever.

    2) Amitie : I think a focus on just what the hell her goal of becoming ''the world's greatest magician/a wonderful magic user'' even entails, would be the best way to go.
    Raffine : I'd be more interested in a story that details how she and Klug became rivals.
    Sig : Exactly what I would have chosen.

    3) Risukuma : Most logical choice
    Maguro/Ringo : I'd cut the friendship sideplot out of one of them, because having it in two stories in the same package can only be repetetive.

    4) I have nothing to say on them that I haven't said in the past.

    5) They are better off forgetting about Suzuran altogether, all it does for the series is to add complications as to how to bring the PP7 characters to the rest of the cast, might as well keep the PP7 cast in Primp fulltime and never mention Suzuran ever again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
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  9. puyokid
    Cool

    puyokid Treasure Hunter

    To be fair, when I said world-renowned, I meant as in...well, let's be honest. At this point, who DOESN'T"T know of his existence?

    BTW, semi-unrelated question: Is Sonic Forces any good?

    Sorry, I was planning on posting this in the context of our posts about how Compile (very vaguely) pushed Arle x Satan, and very vaguely implied Arle x Schezo. I guess I did it a little late or it just wasn't needed.

    Seriously, if SEGA doesn't do something with this plot point soon, the idea of Amitie being a main protag alongside Arle and Ringo is going to seem quite a bit less "realistic". Like, Arle and Ringo don't even seem to have any real goals, and even then they still feel more "front-and-center" than Amitie. Don't get me wrong, I know that games released even today state that Arle is a "magician-in-training", but SEGA doesn't seem to do anything with that in-game.

    I should mention the main reason I went with my idea was because Raffine's dislike for Amitie was never established in a manner like Arle and Rulue's (one-sided) rivalry. Though, thinking about now, Raffine and Klug's rivalry is still a thing unlike Ami/Raf...

    To be honest, I actually didn't want to have the friendship sideplot in BOTH of their stories in the first place, but 1. I wasn't sure whose story should have it as a sideplot, and 2. I'll be honest, I had a pretty tricky time on deciding what Maguro's story should be about.

    You know, I've been meaning to ask, do you think a future Puyo game should have some sort of plot that merges Arle, Amitie, and Ringo's worlds? I know, it's cliche, but would PP7's cast get around the usual complicated stuff.
     
  10. warelander
    Mellow

    warelander Hope Rides Alone

    I haven't played it and to be honest nothing that I have seen of it convinces me to do so, though the general opinion on it seems to be more mixed then anything else.

    Ringo does have a dream in wanting to be a pop singer and she actually demonstrates a fondness for singing at several points. Similary Klug wants to be a accomplished warlock like Lemres and not only has an idol to try and impress and learn from, but he is actually pretty hard working in regards to archiving his goal as well and his 15th story even has him wish for an article about him in the local mage magazin.

    Amitie's goal on the other hand is only an informed trait, not only is it not defined, but it's never even all that relevant to Amitie in any way, the most we ever got was 15th and even that didn't do a whole lot.


    Eh, I feel the same way about this as I feel about Strange Klug becoming a villain for Amitie (which was brought up here before), Raffine moving away from having Amitie as a rival helped distance her from her initial Rulue expy status and SK is very much Sig's villain, changing things to make Amitie revelant in those two scenarios would not only take away things from Raffine and Sig and make them even more irelevant, but also make me despise Amitie, she already get's everything as is, no need to take away things from others.


    I think I already brought that up at one point and I'm certainly in favor of it, add Ally's world in other words just her and Rafisol as well and I'm good, I'm sick of the multiple worlds/world hopping thing and this would be the one way to end it all.
     
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  11. puyokid
    Cool

    puyokid Treasure Hunter

    This is exactly what bothers me about Ami's "character arc" in the series. SEGA isn't going anywhere with it, and (IMO) her goals feel (more or less) in-line with Puyo Puyo's magical setting.

    Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate SEGA making Raffine more and more distinct from Rulue (to the point where they don't feel like the same character anymore), and Sig actually having stuff to do outside of...bugs.

    Still, this is what I'm talking about. Honestly, I don't like putting it like this (especially considering that I'm quite fond of Ami), but Amitie's goal seems to only be a thing just so she has SOME reason to be a main protag along the ranks of Arle and Ringo. This is something I really hope SEGA deals with soon before Amitie's overall role starts to become meaningless.

    Again, Ami's goal actually feels more in-line with Puyo Puyo's setting. The fact that SEGA isn't doing anything worthwhile with her "story arc", is a fairly big waste, IMO.

    Yeah, I thought you'd be. Still, if they were to drop the dimension-hopping plot point, I'd like to dream that SEGA doesn't screw it up and/or make the story underwhelming. Knowing Puyo Puyo, I'm sure I'm asking a lot, but I'd like the story to be...encompassing. Maybe with my idea of a new antagonist who uses the Puyos' ability to grant the power of dimension-hopping.
     
  12. warelander
    Mellow

    warelander Hope Rides Alone

    You are giving her ''goal'' way too much credit, it's never been the reason she's a main character and there is no ''arc'' to speak of, the only reason she's a main character is because she's a magic girl with an ''A'' name, it's that simple and shallow.

    Instead of trying to justify any of that I'd rather them give anyone not named Arle/Amitie/Ringo/Satan/Ecolo something of note to do again, I'm sick and tired of seeing them pushed to the side all the time.

    Honestly this is a case where I care more about the end result then the story around it.

    Also, I hate to ask for things like that, but could you please reblog this:
    https://warelander.tumblr.com/post/167387728020/in-the-grasp-of-the-doppelganger-a-puyo-puyo

    FF.net doesn't have much of a Puyo audience and so far the post isn't getting much attention, not that I was expecting a ton or anything, but I really just want some feedback to see what I should work on, in terms of my writing and you would really help me with this.
     
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  13. puyokid
    Cool

    puyokid Treasure Hunter

    I guess since I like Amitie, I just don't want to believe that it IS that simple and shallow, probably.

    Then again, Amitie's goal of wanting to be the world's greatest magician hasn't really made any real (or ACTUAL) headway ever since her introduction...

    It saddens me how seems that 20th seemed to want do what you said here, but in the end, things fell flat. Heck, I even feel like the 'A' Trio, Satan, and Ecolo pretty much WERE that game's focus. It also doesn't help that 20th didn't have that light world-building aspect that 15th had to fall back on either.

    Say, wasn't 20th even the first game to TRULY push the concept of the 'A' Trio to the forefront of the cast once it was more or less established in PP7?

    I should mention that the reason I also mention the story is so that SEGA at least gives us a cohesive reason as to why it happened.

    Oh, no prob! Heck, I already reblogged it since!

    Um, I'd like to know, I'm not bothering you with all of these questions, am I?
     
  14. warelander
    Mellow

    warelander Hope Rides Alone

    Eh, I'd say only the last story is particulary guilty of that, everyone getting their own story already secures them at least a meaningful amount of screentime for once, instead of them just serving as cannonfodder to be beaten up by the A Trio.

    Nah, the last battle of PP7 is where it really started to get pushed and it's by far the most insulting example of it, since everyone is present, yet only Arle, Amitie and Ringo get to fight, while everyone else are reduced to being worthless bystanders.

    And I'm very appreciative of it, thanks a bunch!

    Nah not at all.
     
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  15. puyokid
    Cool

    puyokid Treasure Hunter

    Well, I suppose you have a point there. I guess I'm really thinking that it's the case because...well, have you seen the promotion 20th got leading up to its release in late 2011? The 'A' Trio was practically everywhere. I mean, I guess it makes sense?

    Something that to this day, I find a bit...anticlimactic. I mean, we've got (almost) the entire cast of series spanning about 18 years facing off against this supposedly all- powerful reality warper and THIS is how PP7 wrapped things up? Having only 3 people take him on? Thank goodness for 20th's final battle, I'll say that much.

    Also, while I know of how PP7's true final battle had the 'A' Trio fight Ecolo (and how bothersome it was for the reason I stated above), I guess until now, I never really felt like the end of PP7 was where the concept of the 'A' Trio started to be pushed to the forefront.

    Hey, it's all good!

    BTW, I don't suppose you saw my recent post on Tumblr about Raffine and Klug, have you?
     
  16. warelander
    Mellow

    warelander Hope Rides Alone

    PP7 already did that though, it's not as noticable, since 20th got far more promotion, but it was already the case there as well.

    To each their own, I just can't say that it doesn't give me that vibe.

    Now that you mentioned it I looked it up, really good, even if I'm not a fan of Klug x Raffine, personally.

    On a site note, remember when we talked about alts in Quest and I made a collage in regards to it? Well, just for the hell of it I made an update to see how things have changed :
    [​IMG]
    Arle is now even further in the lead, Sig has tied Amitie and Raffine, Satan, Suketoudara and Carbuncle all moved up by one alt.

    Just interesting to see and compare, though now more then ever I'm really curious about what goes into deciding what alts get made.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
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  17. puyokid
    Cool

    puyokid Treasure Hunter

    Huh, I guess SEGA must have known what they were doing after all...I mean, I hope I'm wrong, but still...

    I was hoping you'd like it!

    Wow, look at all of these alts.! I was just about to ask, do you think you'd able to fit any additional characters like Mummy, Archan, Succubus, Banshee Trio, Kodomo Dragon, etc. getting alts.?

    Also, I have another question. The Fire Elemental character never appeared in a Puyo game unlike Water Elemental, right? So he (sadly) doesn't have a chance to appear in Quest at the very least, right?
     
  18. warelander
    Mellow

    warelander Hope Rides Alone

    Easily, but you know, for that to happen the alts need to come out first.

    Anyone who hasn't shown up in a title with the Puyo Puyo name is off lmits.
     
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  19. warelander
    Mellow

    warelander Hope Rides Alone

    By the by, I brought up the idea of whether or the alt attention some characters get in Quest says something about developer's interest in them before, but between that factor, Puyo Puyo!! Touch's unreleased (but still present in the game's coding) and released roster ,the new LINE sticker wave and certain mainstream titles there is some notable overlap that actually supports that idea more then I would have ever thought.

    For the record all of the PPTouch charas I will be talking about (except for one case) were planned, but the game was shut down before they could be released and here's a overveiw of the LINE sticker set for reference:
    edf.PNG
    Let's look at this from a character to character basis:

    Lagnus, Seriri and Harpy are on there, which isn't surprising due to Chronicle, but even before that they got noticable alt attention in Quest, Harpy made a short appearence in PP7 and both her and Lagnus were meant to show up in Touch. With those three it's very safe to say that Sonic Team/SEGA seems to be rather fond of them.

    Skeleton-T on top of appearing in PP7 and getting a LINE sticker has not only recieved a Quest alt, but was also on the starting roster of Touch, even before current mainstays like Ecolo. There's also data suggesting that he may have been planned for 20th Anni. but that might have just been for placeholder purposes, similar to how there's still 15th Anni. data in PP7.

    Sasoriman, Kikimora and Minotauros have both LINE stickers and one Quest alt each and both Sasoriman and Minotauros were planned for Touch.

    Zoh Daimoh was in 15th, recieved a Quest alt and was planned to appear in Touch.

    Interestingly, despite getting no special attention in Quest, outside of appearing in it, Gogotte was planned for Touch, which makes him the only dropped Fever character to be planned for it, if he's the first droped Fever chara to get an alt than this will line up even more.

    Dark Arle on top of the LINE sticker and Quest alt was also planned for Touch. This one actually worries me a bit, because bad execution in PP7 aside I really do like the idea behind Darkle, as well as her design and alt, but her getting all this attention with Doppel nowhere in sight (save for appearing in Quest at all) makes me worry that SEGA might prefer Darkle as their go-to ''evil Arle'' character, while leaving Doppel in the dust.

    So yeah, those are just my observations, because I do feel that I might be onto something, in terms of which characters outside of the current main cast SEGA/Sonic Team is interested in using, since all of this seems way to intentional.
     
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  20. puyokid
    Cool

    puyokid Treasure Hunter

    Heh-heh...yeah, good point...

    OK, just wanted to be sure. Speaking of which, I remember you telling me this once before. That being said, I hope you're not annoyed by me asking about Fire Element and the whole "is he possible for SEGA-era Puyo games" thing.

    Wow, this is really well thought-out! I won't lie, I'm hoping this would mean that Madou-era characters like Minotauros, Skeleton-T, and Kikimora are in the running to return to the series just like Lagnus, Seriri, and Harpy.

    As for the likes of Sasoriman and Zoh Daimaoh, I'd still like to think that all of this is adding up to something for them as well. In terms of Gogotte, I'm a little surprised he was considered before Tarutaru or Akuma, but it's still nice to see him get acknowledged like this at all considering his sole mainstream appearance in Fever 2.

    Also, I still can't BELIEVE "Darkle" was considered for Puyo Touch before Doppel. I'm praying that Dark Arle isn't really planned to return unless SEGA intends to do something worthwhile with her. Otherwise, Doppel NEEDS to come back, if for no other reason than to wrap up her character arc. What's more, what "narrative" reason would Ecolo have to possess Arle again? Well, other than trolling the entire cast like he did in PP7.
     

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