Puyo Puyo

[puyokid]

It would be better then them not appearing at all, but I dunno.... non-playable appearances of previously playable charas always feel like a gigantic tease to me.

Yeah, I thought the same thing, but if I'm being honest? I think I'd rather have this happen than have nothing at all. Heck, how much of the Madou-era cast is limited to Puyo Quest these days? 85%? 90%?

I mean, the odds of characters like Minotauros, Momomo, Fufufu, Parara, Kikimora, Panotty, Archan, Chico, Chico's Dragon, etc. appearing in a mainline game admittedly look pretty slim at the moment if you ask me. I mean, this isn't even going to characters like Tarutaru and Akuma, who haven't appeared since Fever 2. At least they'd get a speaking role for cutscenes which I wouldn't be TOO opposed to honestly.

 

[warelander]

Heck, how much of the Madou-era cast is limited to Puyo Quest these days? 85%? 90%?

The sad thing is that they still have a better chance then any of the cut Fever characters, since SEGA has actually put an effort to re-insert pre-Fever charas back into the main series, while the cut Fever charas practically don't exist anymore outside of Quest and even there none of them have even gotten an alt.

Also can I just point out that Maguro in PP7 has a really weird case of Sonic sideways mouth:

I mean I know both series are handled by Sonic Team and characters do sometimes move their mouths a bit (usually sideways, to look smug or cocky), with Maguro being a prime example, so it's clearly meant to be a quirk, but it's never gotten this extreme ever again.

 

[warelander]

Speaking of Maguro, we both have talked at lenght about how we'd like to see him get more to do and one thing that really sticks out to me is that Sig and Schezo have done a fair couple of things together, while Maguro has yet to even interact with either of them. So here's what I'd like to see:

That's right, at least one story/chapter or ideally even a full game centered on the ''S Trio'' similar to how we always see it with the ''A Trio''.

I'm usually in favor of not constantly sticking the cast into ARS, A Trio, Madou/Fever/7 or other such groupings, but I happily would make an exception for this one, since the idea of these three radically different characters playing off of each other would be a lot of fun and it could really help Maguro in the long run, since he never got the same type of protagonist roles that Sig and Schezo got.

Here's more S Trio content, in case you'd like more.

 

[puyokid]

The sad thing is that they still have a better chance then any of the cut Fever characters, since SEGA has actually put an effort to re-insert pre-Fever charas back into the main series, while the cut Fever charas practically don't exist anymore outside of Quest and even there none of them have even gotten an alt.

I know, right? Heck, I personally think characters like Water Elemental (who isn't even in Quest...YET...?), Black Kikimora, or even Jan might even have more of a chance than the removed Fever-era characters these days.

I feel like I've said this once before, but I REALLY feel like Tarutaru REALLY should have returned for Puyo Chronicles. I don't know what it is, but I feel like that game should have brought him back for the series' 25th anniversary. Again, I don't know what it is, but I feel like Chronicles feels a bit...incomplete without him for some reason.

Also can I just point out that Maguro in PP7 has a really weird case of Sonic sideways mouth:

I mean I know both series are handled by Sonic Team and characters do sometimes move their mouths a bit (usually sideways, to look smug or cocky), with Maguro being a prime example, so it's clearly meant to be a quirk, but it's never gotten this extreme ever again.

Yeah, I've noticed that. Well, actually I've taken more notice of the fact that Maguro practically has fangs in his grin in PP7. I don't know what it is, but there's something about them. It's not bad, but it gives off such a "cartoonish vibe" don't you think?

Speaking of Maguro, we both have talked at length about how we'd like to see him get more to do and one thing that really sticks out to me is that Sig and Schezo have done a fair couple of things together, while Maguro has yet to even interact with either of them. So here's what I'd like to see:

That's right, at least one story/chapter or ideally even a full game centered on the ''S Trio'' similar to how we always see it with the ''A Trio''.

I'm usually in favor of not constantly sticking the cast into ARS, A Trio, Madou/Fever/7 or other such groupings, but I happily would make an exception for this one, since the idea of these three radically different characters playing off of each other would be a lot of fun and it could really help Maguro in the long run, since he never got the same type of protagonist roles that Sig and Schezo got.

Wow, this is something I actually wouldn't mind seeing. The specific grouping of characters aside, this would be quite the team-up. Honestly, I feel like they'd have a slightly more "interesting" dynamic in comparison to the 'A' Trio. As a matter of fact, there are even times where I question whether or not Maguro (AND Risukuma for that matter) are aware of the existence of the other Puyo/Madou characters and vice-versa.

All this being said, while I'd much rather have Maguro have his own protagonist role like in my hypothetical remake of Puyo Puyo 7's story, I'd love this too.

Speaking of all this, I'd also like to see (at least) a chapter focusing on the 'R' Trio as well.

I mean, imagine Risukuma (of all people) being the mediator to these two firecrackers who get set off at the slightest provocation. Also, just like with Maguro and the 'S' Trio, this would give Risukuma an opportunity to interact with the likes of Rulue and Raffine. Both of whom that I wonder if he's even aware of their existence and vice-versa.

Say, out of curiosity...you didn't happen to send this confession to Tumblr, did you?

http://puyoconfessions.tumblr.com/post/163256520350/i-would-like-a-game-focusing-on-the-r-and-s-trio

BTW, I have two more questions for you.

1. I was watching the newest Puyo Quest live-stream and they did another one of their skits-thingies, and something came to my mind. Even since PPT's release in Japan, SEGA's been using the manzai art of everyone's who was playable in that game for these things. Heck, even the art of characters who weren't playable in that game/weren't in that game whatsoever seem to have been somewhat "updated" in order to match PPT's more "proportion-friendly" artstyle.

Basically, my question is this: Do you think future (2D) Puyo games intend to continue using PPT's "proportioned" art? Personally, I REALLY hope so, as I LOVE PPT's art compered to all of SEGA's post Yo~n artwork.

2. My second question was if you could remind me whether or not Succubus and Incubus are as rich as Satan and Rulue. I could have sworn I've seen them BOTH with mansions (or at the very least, VERY big estates) in Madou Saturn.

 

[warelander]

Yeah, I've noticed that. Well, actually I've taken more notice of the fact that Maguro practically has fangs in his grin in PP7. I don't know what it is, but there's something about them. It's not bad, but it gives off such a "cartoonish vibe" don't you think?

I guess that's one way to put it, I just find them kinda weird, maybe he just got a better dentist between games.

Honestly, I feel like they'd have a slightly more "interesting" dynamic in comparison to the 'A' Trio.

That's a big thing too I don't feel like the A girls ever developed much of a dynamic in any way, which isn't helped by the fact that they all share the same ''magical school girl heroine'' trope.

That's not to say that they are clones (some questionable decisions with Amitie aside, like shamelessly copying Arle's bayoeen spell), but they aren't a very diverse trio, especially when looking at the invidual ARS trios where we had :

A down to earth magic girl.
The self proclamed fighting queen, who's in love with Satan.
A dark wizard anti-hero, who is plagued by horrible wording.

A ditzy, but kind magic girl.
A snobbish and tough self proclaimed ''proper lady''.
A spacey half-demon boy, who loves bugs and is directly connected to the Fever world's main villain.

A smart, but eccentric magic girl.
An odd science club student, who accidentally turned himself into a bear.
A rather normal boy, with a multitude of hobbies and a dangerously gorgeous face.

Of course those are just the cliff notes versions of these characters, but you get what I mean, both the R or S trios would make for more diverse and in my opinion, interesting protagonist trios and I don't mean to talk down on the A girls when I say that, I just don't think they work as well with each other then they do with other characters.

I mean, imagine Risukuma (of all people) being the mediator to these two firecrackers who get set off at the slightest provocation. Also, just like with Maguro and the 'S' Trio, this would give Risukuma an opportunity to interact with the likes of Rulue and Raffine. Both of whom that I wonder if he's even aware of their existence and vice-versa.

I'd be interested to see that, though admitingly a S Trio anything is much higher on the ''want'' list for me.

Say, out of curiosity...you didn't happen to send this confession to Tumblr, did you?

http://puyoconfessions.tumblr.com/post/163256520350/i-would-like-a-game-focusing-on-the-r-and-s-trio

Nope that was not me.

BTW, I have two more questions for you.

1. I was watching the newest Puyo Quest live-stream and they did another one of their skits-thingies, and something came to my mind. Even since PPT's release in Japan, SEGA's been using the manzai art of everyone's who was playable in that game for these things. Heck, even the art of characters who weren't playable in that game/weren't in that game whatsoever seem to have been somewhat "updated" in order to match PPT's more "proportion-friendly" artstyle.

Basically, my question is this: Do you think future (2D) Puyo games intend to continue using PPT's "proportioned" art? Personally, I REALLY hope so, as I LOVE PPT's art compered to all of SEGA's post Yo~n artwork.

2. My second question was if you could remind me whether or not Succubus and Incubus are as rich as Satan and Rulue. I could have sworn I've seen them BOTH with mansions (or at the very least, VERY big estates) in Madou Saturn.

1)It could be that the PPT style may end up being a permament evolution of the character designs and I myself would certainly like it myself, but just with any other question in regards to the future of the series my most honest answer is a simple ''I dunno''.

2)I know that they have mansions, no clue whether or not they are supposed to be particulary wealthy though.

 

[puyokid]

I guess that's one way to put it, I just find them kinda weird, maybe he just got a better dentist between games.

I smell a headcanon forming...

That's a big thing too. I don't feel like the A girls ever developed much of a dynamic in any way, which isn't helped by the fact that they all share the same ''magical school girl heroine'' trope.

That's not to say that they are clones (some questionable decisions with Amitie aside, like shamelessly copying Arle's bayoeen spell), but they aren't a very diverse trio, especially when looking at the individual ARS trios where we had :

A down to earth magic girl.
The self proclaimed fighting queen, who's in love with Satan.
A dark wizard anti-hero, who is plagued by horrible wording.

A ditzy, but kind magic girl.
A snobbish and tough self proclaimed ''proper lady''.
A spacey half-demon boy, who loves bugs and is directly connected to the Fever world's main villain.

A smart, but eccentric magic girl.
An odd science club student, who accidentally turned himself into a bear.
A rather normal boy, with a multitude of hobbies and a dangerously gorgeous face.

Of course, those are just the cliff notes versions of these characters, but you get what I mean, both the R or S trios would make for more diverse and in my opinion, interesting protagonist trios and I don't mean to talk down on the A girls when I say that, I just don't think they work as well with each other than they do with other characters.

Oh, wow. I couldn't agree with you more. I definitely DON'T hate the 'A' Trio or anything, but they REALLY need more of a dynamic.

Honestly, it feels like all of the pieces needed to make the concept of the dynamic of the 'A' Trio as "interesting" as what the 'R' and 'S' Trios have to potentially offer are there, but it feels like SEGA's holding back on something pretty important . I don't know exactly what it is, but it feels like something pretty major.

This is usually why I bring up things such as:

- Arle regaining her characterization from Minna
- Amitie getting....SOMETHING to keep her relevant to the plot, since Arle has Satan and Ringo has Ecolo so she doesn't feel like such a Tagalong Kid
- Amitie having more divergent spells from Arle, as some have made the joke that she's a bootleg Arle.

The only one I can say that feels OK to me is Ringo with her niche of being the trio's eccentric genius, but her having magic abilities (even if they're not copy-and-pasted from Arle) is what doesn't set her apart from them. Maybe if she developed her powers over time following her debut in PP7, it would have helped in the long run. It doesn't help that PP7 as a whole felt like a rushed cash-grab, so the cast of PP7 feel a bit "inconsequential" to the series as a whole.

I don't even want to get into the LNs on this subject...

I'd be interested to see that, though admittedly a S Trio anything is much higher on the ''want'' list for me.

Well, we'd need to hope that SEGA would be willing to give either trio such roles in the first place...

1)It could be that the PPT style may end up being a permanent evolution of the character designs and I myself would certainly like it myself, but just with any other question in regards to the future of the series my most honest answer is a simple ''I dunno''.

Ah, I see. Honestly, I really hope that Puyo games go with PPT's artstyle from here on out, as some time's passed, so of course everyone would look taller and so on by now. Heck, it feels more noticable with the Fever-era cast (moreso Amitie, Klug and Rider, but still).

Also, maybe it's just me, but Arle with long hair looks better than short hair, if I'm being honest.

2)I know that they have mansions, no clue whether or not they are supposed to be particularly wealthy though.

Oh, I see. Thanks for telling me.

 

[warelander]

Honestly, it feels like all of the pieces needed to make the concept of the dynamic of the 'A' Trio as "interesting" as what the 'R' and 'S' Trios have to potentially offer are there, but it feels like SEGA's holding back on something pretty important . I don't know exactly what it is, but it feels like something pretty major.

Thing is there was a hint of a dynamic in the Arle & Amitie manzai in Fever 2, with Arle playing the straight (wo)man to Amitie's ditzy antics, even getting angry at her, we just never got to see something like this ever again, because despite them always being together the games really never center around them as a group. PPT is a great example of that where the game instead forms a much more strong, defined and sincere bond between Ringo and T then the A Trio ever had with each other, in just a single game which is part of why I hold the A Trio concept at pretty much no value.

- Amitie having more divergent spells from Arle, as some have made the joke that she's a bootleg Arle.

I mean all things considered most if not all Fever characters are homages to Madou era charas in one way or another, but Amitie stands out in how far they went to make her such an on the nose expy that it's very glaring, especially when it comes to spells, since those always relate to the character in question, so Amitie's being almost entirely cloned does not say very flattering things about her.

Also, maybe it's just me, but Arle with long hair looks better than short hair, if I'm being honest.

As I said in the past I generally like the additions and changes PPT makes to the character designs, like Arle's longer hair, Risukuma's scarf, the more Fever series inspired outfits for Sig, Klug and Raffine and so on, the only one I don't dig is the more PP7 inspired Ringo outfit, but that's the only exception.

 

[puyokid]

Thing is, there was a hint of a dynamic in the Arle & Amitie manzai in Fever 2, with Arle playing the straight (wo)man to Amitie's ditzy antics, even getting angry at her, we just never got to see something like this ever again, because despite them always being together the games really never center around them as a group. PPT is a great example of that where the game instead forms a much more strong, defined and sincere bond between Ringo and T than the A Trio ever had with each other, in just a single game which is part of why I hold the A Trio concept at pretty much no value.

See, this is what I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure that's the only time Arle's shown any genuine emotion towards Amitie that WASN'T a positive emotion (i.e. cheerfulness, kindness, playfulness, etc.). Ringo and Tee's relationship is WAY more developed than the 'A' Trio. Honestly, it sometimes feels like the 'A' Trio is simply together for the sake of being together.

What I'd like to see out of the 'A' Trio for Ringo to keep her role of the straight (wo)man who's an eccentric genius, Amitie to still be the ditzy sweetheart she's always been, and Arle to be the snarky, yet kind magician with an attitude that she was in Minna. All this being said, I'd like for the girls to INTERACT with these personalities, as it feels like they really don't do that in the games. The LNs kind of feel like they do, but everything still rounds back to Amitie.

BTW, about the Fever 2 cutscene you mentioned. I don't suppose that's the one where Amitie attempts (and fails) to help Arle and Carbuncle return to their dimension. Actually, all she gave them were injuries in her attempt, right?

I mean all things considered most if not all Fever characters are homages to Madou era charas in one way or another, but Amitie stands out in how far they went to make her such an on the nose expy that it's very glaring, especially when it comes to spells, since those always relate to the character in question, so Amitie's being almost entirely cloned does not say very flattering things about her.

Exactly. Heck, that's quite possibly the ONLY thing I dislike about Amitie's overall design. That someone could refer to her as a "bootleg Arle/Arle (semi-)clone", and they (sadly) wouldn't be too far off the mark there. Look at Raffine, she's probably even MORE of an expy of Rulue than Amitie is of Arle, and yet Raffine still feels distinct enough from Rulue that not many (if anyone) refer to her as a pink-haired clone clone of Rulue. Personally, I've always felt Amitie should have been WAY more distinct from Arle ever since PP7*, if not sooner than that.

Actually I've had the idea of Amitie's spell theme getting completely revamped from the ground-up, being more based on either her happy-go-lucky nature such as (in no particular order) "Cheerful!", "Delighted!" "Ecstatic!", "Elated", "Joyful", "Jubilation", "Thrilling!" "Upbeat!" or a party-based spell theme such as (in no particular order) "Party-time!", "Celebration!", "Soiree!", "Shindig!", "Amusement!"," Bash!", "Blowout!", "Entertainment", "Carnival!", "Festival!"

Now don't these seem to fit Amitie more than what SEGA been doing with her?

*BTW, the reason I mentioned PP7 specifically is because that game is more or less where Arle herself started to be brought back to the forefront of Puyo games' plots rather than take a back seat to the main protagonist.

As I said in the past, I generally like the additions and changes PPT makes to the character designs, like Arle's longer hair, Risukuma's scarf, the more Fever series inspired outfits for Sig, Klug and Raffine and so on, the only one I don't dig is the more PP7 inspired Ringo outfit, but that's the only exception.

Exactly, as I've also said before, I love how it shows that time DOES pass in the series. If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that PPT takes approximately 1 year after 20th Anniversary. That being said, it looks like that timeskip was VERY good to the cast in terms of appearance. You know, I'd love to see the changes made to characters like Lagnus in this artstyle, as I feel that it would serve him very well.

 

[warelander]

BTW, about the Fever 2 cutscene you mentioned. I don't suppose that's the one where Amitie attempts (and fails) to help Arle and Carbuncle return to their dimension. Actually, all she gave them were injuries in her attempt, right?

That's the one, yeah.

Look at Raffine, she's probably even MORE of an expy of Rulue than Amitie is of Arle, and yet Raffine still feels distinct enough from Rulue that not many (if anyone) refer to her as a pink-haired clone clone of Rulue. Personally, I've always felt Amitie should have been WAY more distinct from Arle ever since PP7*, if not sooner than that.

While I can't say I agree that Raffine could ever be more of an expy then Amitie I am very glad you brought her up, because I feel like unlike Amitie Raffine is a good example of an expy that developed her own identity.

Obviously Raffine takes a lot from Rulue and even acted as a rival towards Amitie in Fever 1, however that part was abandoned as soon as Fever 2 which places comparatively more focus on her heated dynamic with Klug and re-estaplishes her as a snobbish girl that only really goes on her quests because of the promise of rewards, similary 20th expands on her lack of magic powers, showing that she feels a degree of insecurity over it.

She might still share some similarities with Rulue, but those have become increasingly secondary to her character, she doesn't hopelessly chase after one guy, she doesn't violently assault Amitie, like Rulue and Schezo assault Arle and just in general outside of her original rival role Raffine never just filled out extremely Rulue-like roles, she actually has a distinct life of her own.

Amitie could have gone into a similar direction and I do feel like Fever 2 and 15th did give her a better enviroment to express a character of her own, with her hometown and the people within it being the focus of these games, but then the A Trio was formed and Amitie was left where she is now. The only thing that's really brought up these days is the question of where her Puyo hat came from and even then that subplot is so underdeveloped that it's not even worth discussing.

If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that PPT takes approximately 1 year after 20th Anniversary.

I heard you bring that up before and to be honest I never heard of that claim anywhere, got any idea where you heard that from?

 

[puyokid]

While I can't say I agree that Raffine could ever be more of an expy then Amitie I am very glad you brought her up, because I feel like unlike Amitie Raffine is a good example of an expy that developed her own identity.

Obviously Raffine takes a lot from Rulue and even acted as a rival towards Amitie in Fever 1, however that part was abandoned as soon as Fever 2 which places comparatively more focus on her heated dynamic with Klug and re-establishes her as a snobbish girl that only really goes on her quests because of the promise of rewards, similarly 20th expands on her lack of magic powers, showing that she feels a degree of insecurity over it.

She might still share some similarities with Rulue, but those have become increasingly secondary to her character, she doesn't hopelessly chase after one guy, she doesn't violently assault Amitie, like Rulue and Schezo assault Arle and just in general outside of her original rival role Raffine never just filled out extremely Rulue-like roles, she actually has a distinct life of her own.

Actually, that was the point I was trying to make. Raffine (at least, by expy standards) feels as if she's developed more from her "base character" Rulue than Amitie has from Arle since their dual debut to the series in Fever 1.

As a matter of fact, I thought that this was just my imagination at first, but it DOES feel like Raffine doesn't even seem to go out of her way to one-up Amitie anymore after Fever 1 (unlike Rulue, who still continues such an act when it comes to Arle and Satan), and simply focuses on her own goals. Heck...worst case scenario, she only belittles Amitie whenever she does something totally dim-witted in her presence rather than outright bully her. Otherwise, she seems fairly amicable towards her these days.

Aside from that, she actually seems fairly calm most of the time, barring her little spats with Klug. After Fever 2, she's even more chill around Rider and Sig (when the latter isn't showing her a bug or something). Also, as you said before, where Rulue has learned to take pride in her non-magical heritage, Raffine actually feels surprisingly self-conscious on the subject.

Honestly, I'm starting to appreciate the diverging of Raffine and Rulue a bit more. At first, they seemed like the same person to me. Rich, snobbish jerkasses who are experts in martial arts (Well, Rulue more than Raffine) with a serious beef with the main protagonist (Heck, considering how we never even see just HOW Raffine became Amitie's rival prior to Fever 1's events unlike Rulue and Arle, whose rivalry was established as far back as Madou 3, that just made believe that SEGA made them rivals for the sake of it).

All in all, I should thank you for explaining what you explained as I'm actually starting to appreciate Raffine as a character more. I mean, she's far from my favorite (still not a fan of the jerkass thing), but I'm more appreciative of her divergence from Rulue.

Amitie could have gone into a similar direction and I do feel like Fever 2 and 15th did give her a better environment to express a character of her own, with her hometown and the people within it being the focus of these games, but then the A Trio was formed and Amitie was left where she is now. The only thing that's really brought up these days is the question of where her Puyo hat came from and even then that subplot is so underdeveloped that it's not even worth discussing.

PLEASE SEGA, give Amitie more development already. Heck, it's pretty safe to say that Raffine and Sig have more development than her at this moment in time, which I find a bit unfortunate. It also annoys me how we STILL don't have an explanation on her Puyo beanie, not to mention that she doesn't seem any closer to her goal of being the "world's greatest magician" than she did during hr introduction to the series in Fever 1. Don't get me wrong, I still love Amitie, but SEGA really needs to throw her a bone already rather than keep as the Tagalong Kid to the 'A' Trio.

I heard you bring that up before and to be honest I never heard of that claim anywhere, got any idea where you heard that from?

I read it on Wikipedia actually. There's a broken(?) link that cited a website that states that PPT was even supposed to be released after PP7 (thus taking place a year after THAT game), but due to the series' 20th Anniversary closing in, SEGA had to delay PPT to be released AFTER 20th and by extension, the cited site stated that PPT takes place 1 year after 20th instead. Which I suppose explains everyone's re-proportioned designs.

 

[warelander]

After Fever 2, she's even more chill around Rider and Sig (when the latter isn't showing her a bug or something).

Actually from what we have seen Sig and Raffine seem to be fairly close, sure he sometimes still has to deal with very Raffine-typical outbursts, but outside of that she is generally pretty friendly towards him, the two are very frequently seen together whenever Amitie is off somewhere without them aka all the time, PP7 directly confirms that Sig sees her as a friend and Raffine along Klug is even genuinely worried about his well being in Sig's Secret, even refusing to let him work along with them during the ending, because they insist that he needs to rest.

PLEASE SEGA, give Amitie more development already. Heck, it's pretty safe to say that Raffine and Sig have more development than her at this moment in time, which I find a bit unfortunate. It also annoys me how we STILL don't have an explanation on her Puyo beanie, not to mention that she doesn't seem any closer to her goal of being the "world's greatest magician" than she did during hr introduction to the series in Fever 1. Don't get me wrong, I still love Amitie, but SEGA really needs to throw her a bone already rather than keep as the Tagalong Kid to the 'A' Trio.

The thing is just that even in the Fever games Amitie has always been more of a supporting protagonist, while others get the bigger bulk of the story, I mean think about it :

-In Fever 1 it's Raffine's story where we get the hint that there might be something going on with Ms. Accord, no such thing is ever shown in Amitie's story.

-In Fever 2 it's Sig who has the backstory and connection to Strange Klug, which might not be 100% neccessary for the basic plot, but adds a ton of context and answers a lot of questions.

-In 15th everyone has their own story now and even as far as the returning ''Arle want to find a way back home'' plot is concerned it's not Amitie who fights one of Arle's rivals for her sake or has a line of his referenced in her ending, instead it's Sig.

Amitie as a protagonist worked in the context of the Fever world where the Magic School and the people around it were the center of everything, as a member of the A Trio however she just doesn't offer much, since she was never the main character for Fever in the way that Arle was the pre-Fever main character or how Ringo was PP7's main character.

I read it on Wikipedia actually. There's a broken(?) link that cited a website that states that PPT was even supposed to be released after PP7 (thus taking place a year after THAT game), but due to the series' 20th Anniversary closing in, SEGA had to delay PPT to be released AFTER 20th and by extension, the cited site stated that PPT takes place 1 year after 20th instead. Which I suppose explains everyone's re-proportioned designs.

Huh, well I can't say whether it's true or not, because frankly I don't know, but it does make me wonder that I never heard of this anywhere else, not saying I don't believe you, I'm questioning the source more then anything else.

 

[puyokid]

Actually from what we have seen Sig and Raffine seem to be fairly close, sure he sometimes still has to deal with very Raffine-typical outbursts, but outside of that she is generally pretty friendly towards him, the two are very frequently seen together whenever Amitie is off somewhere without them aka all the time, PP7 directly confirms that Sig sees her as a friend and Raffine along Klug is even genuinely worried about his well being in Sig's Secret, even refusing to let him work along with them during the ending, because they insist that he needs to rest.

Yeah, this is what I meant. Raffine is (surprisingly) "fairly" nice to Sig, maybe even moreso than she is to Amitie. I'll admit when Sig mentioned that Raffine is his friend in PP7, I just thought that was him talking in general about the people he knows. I didn't know that they were close in that sense, honestly.

The thing is just that even in the Fever games, Amitie has always been more of a supporting protagonist, while others get the bigger bulk of the story, I mean think about it :

-In Fever 1, it's Raffine's story where we get the hint that there might be something going on with Ms. Accord, no such thing is ever shown in Amitie's story.

-In Fever 2, it's Sig who has the backstory and connection to Strange Klug, which might not be 100% necessary for the basic plot, but adds a ton of context and answers a lot of questions.

-In 15th, everyone has their own story now and even as far as the returning ''Arle want to find a way back home'' plot is concerned, it's not Amitie who fights one of Arle's rivals for her sake or has a line of his referenced in her ending, instead it's Sig.

Wow...Amitie's starting to feel more and more like what characters like Ryu (from Street Fighter) are to their games. As in, the "main character/mascot character" is promoted as the main protag, but in reality they're nothing more than a simple figure who don't have THAT big of an influence on the overarching story arc.

Amitie as a protagonist worked in the context of the Fever world where the Magic School and the people around it were the center of everything, as a member of the A Trio however she just doesn't offer much, since she was never the main character for Fever in the way that Arle was the pre-Fever main character or how Ringo was PP7's main character.

This actually worries me a bit. I mean, to think that Amitie is (for the most part) somewhat insignificant in the grand scheme of things in the series' "Fever duology/trilogy", especially in comparison to Arle and Ringo, both of whom were actually important figureheads to the plots of their games. Would it hurt SEGA to give Amitie some bigger role in the series rather than the Tagalong Kid role these days?

Huh, well I can't say whether it's true or not, because frankly I don't know, but it does make me wonder that I never heard of this anywhere else, not saying I don't believe you, I'm questioning the source more then anything else.

Here's the supposed link: http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/000/831/831681/

Warning, it's in Japanese, so I'm not exactly sure what it says.

BTW, would it be alright to ask you to reblog my post about Satan, Succubus, and Incubus?

 

[warelander]

Yeah, this is what I meant. Raffine is (surprisingly) "fairly" nice to Sig, maybe even moreso than she is to Amitie. I'll admit when Sig mentioned that Raffine is his friend in PP7, I just thought that was him talking in general about the people he knows. I didn't know that they were close in that sense, honestly.

To be fair Raffine's attitude can make it easy to overlook at first glance, though she certainly seems to have a bit of a soft spot for him, PP7 in particular is the strongest indicator of there being a friendship between them, heck when you play as Ringo in story mode and lose to her she will mock Ringo, yet when you play as Sig and lose to Raffine she instead has a heart to heart with him, admitting that she feels homesick and asking him if he feels the same, pretty major difference.

There's also rather interesting (probably unintentional) implications in regards to Sig and Raffine, because once he realizes that he's in another world he forgets about bugs for a while and starts looking for a friend, who is later revealed to be Raffine, yet when they hear about a girl with a red Puyo Hat being in town (Sig is even the first to identify that it has to be Amitie) he doesn't bother to come along with Ringo. I mean the obvious answer is that that the game (very badly) throws him out of the plot, even if it makes no sense, but still Sig confirmed to care more about Raffine then Amitie

This actually worries me a bit. I mean, to think that Amitie is (for the most part) somewhat insignificant in the grand scheme of things in the series' "Fever duology/trilogy", especially in comparison to Arle and Ringo, both of whom were actually important figureheads to the plots of their games. Would it hurt SEGA to give Amitie some bigger role in the series rather than the Tagalong Kid role these days?

Thing is I don't feel that Amitie needs have a uberly big role, especially since the Fever series always focused more on the town at large, rather then a single character, what Amitie needs is for her to stand as her own character more and for the the A Trio has to stop being a thing, because that's where she becomes pointless, in the Fever world, even without a big storyline dedicated to her she has her place and her dynamics with other people in the town, with those things she still works perfectly fine as a protagonist.

BTW, would it be alright to ask you to reblog my post about Satan, Succubus, and Incubus?

Sure, though I hate to ask for favors, but would you be interested in reblogging this:
https://mysigblog.tumblr.com/post/165145489366/warelander-i-cant-help-but-wonder-if-that-was

I just think it's an interesting detail and one of the only hints of a connection between the character stories in 15th, since they don't usually reference each other, dubious canon status of the wishes be damned, though Arle's actually works perfectly fine when put next to the later games, especially since her trying to find a way back home is never brought up again afterwards.

 

[puyokid]

To be fair Raffine's attitude can make it easy to overlook at first glance, though she certainly seems to have a bit of a soft spot for him, PP7 in particular is the strongest indicator of there being a friendship between them, heck when you play as Ringo in story mode and lose to her she will mock Ringo, yet when you play as Sig and lose to Raffine she instead has a heart to heart with him, admitting that she feels homesick and asking him if he feels the same, pretty major difference.

Wow, I've never even taken notice of this. As you know, I've already told you before in our recent convo from before that I always pegged Raffine to simply be an expy of Rulue who developed her identity WAY better than Amitie did in terms of being based off of Arle, so I didn't think she was much for ANY friends whatsoever (let alone people like Sig) due to her high-and-mighty personality. To see that Raffine supposedly much nicer to Sig more often than not actually puts a smile on my face.

Say, do you know what EXACTLY Raffine says in every one of her quotes to Ringo and Sig?

There's also rather interesting (probably unintentional) implications in regards to Sig and Raffine, because once he realizes that he's in another world he forgets about bugs for a while and starts looking for a friend, who is later revealed to be Raffine, yet when they hear about a girl with a red Puyo Hat being in town (Sig is even the first to identify that it has to be Amitie) he doesn't bother to come along with Ringo. I mean the obvious answer is that that the game (very badly) throws him out of the plot, even if it makes no sense, but still Sig confirmed to care more about Raffine then Amitie

Just one of the many times where Puyo Puyo 7 seems to screw up by not having more characters get more involved the game's plot (Risukuma and Maguro notwithstanding). I mean, I feel like things would have felt more "authentic" with relationships like this getting more explored rather than being implied via 2-3 line quotes.

Thing is, I don't feel that Amitie needs have a uberly big role, especially since the Fever series always focused more on the town at large, rather than a single character, what Amitie needs is for her to stand as her own character more and for the the A Trio has to stop being a thing, because that's where she becomes pointless, in the Fever world, even without a big storyline dedicated to her she has her place and her dynamics with other people in the town, with those things she still works perfectly fine as a protagonist.

Laugh at me if you want, but honestly? I kind of feel that Amitie's little sub-plot of her red Puyo beanie could actually work as a plot focusing on her, if SEGA actually gave it a "tasteful" resolution than the stupid answers we got regarding the thing in 20th. Obviously, this is including the removal of the concept of the 'A' Trio.

Sure, though I hate to ask for favors, but would you be interested in reblogging this:
https://mysigblog.tumblr.com/post/165145489366/warelander-i-cant-help-but-wonder-if-that-was

I just think it's an interesting detail and one of the only hints of a connection between the character stories in 15th, since they don't usually reference each other, dubious canon status of the wishes be damned, though Arle's actually works perfectly fine when put next to the later games, especially since her trying to find a way back home is never brought up again afterwards.

Oh, don't worry. I've already reblogged it. Speaking of which, did you see just WHAT I wrote in my reblog of that post?

BTW, I have two questions for you.

1. Is the person who runs the Puyo and Madou Headcanons Tumblr page still around? I posted like 3 headcanons of my own, and still nothing. The person was back for a while, but then they left again.

2. I don't suppose you've seen my Tumblr post on the chief producer of PP7 and 20th Anniversary talking about his idea of SEGA making a 'Puyo Puyo Tensei' game? It was something he brought up during SEGA's TGS 2017 presentation of how they plan to revitalize all of their IPs (Puyo Puyo included).

 

[warelander]

Wow, I've never even taken notice of this. As you know, I've already told you before in our recent convo from before that I always pegged Raffine to simply be an expy of Rulue who developed her identity WAY better than Amitie did in terms of being based off of Arle, so I didn't think she was much for ANY friends whatsoever (let alone people like Sig) due to her high-and-mighty personality. To see that Raffine supposedly much nicer to Sig more often than not actually puts a smile on my face.

I am admitingly a big fan of the Sig/Raffine relationship (I even like to ship em'), especially since I'm always in favor of highlighting Raffine and Klug's sympathetic qualities more often.

Say, do you know what EXACTLY Raffine says in every one of her quotes to Ringo and Sig?

I was just about to make screenshots when I remembered that she has three quotes each for both, they all play into what I said though.

Ringo :

Sig :

The difference is pretty notable, since even in her ''proper lady'' quote she doesn't attack or talk down on him in any way.

Laugh at me if you want, but honestly? I kind of feel that Amitie's little sub-plot of her red Puyo beanie could actually work as a plot focusing on her, if SEGA actually gave it a "tasteful" resolution than the stupid answers we got regarding the thing in 20th. Obviously, this is including the removal of the concept of the 'A' Trio.

It's good enough, I'm just not all that invested in that plot point personally, since it feels very half assed to me.

Oh, don't worry. I've already reblogged it. Speaking of which, did you see just WHAT I wrote in my reblog of that post?

Yeah I did and it's exactly what I was trying to get at.

BTW, I have two questions for you.

1. Is the person who runs the Puyo and Madou Headcanons Tumblr page still around? I posted like 3 headcanons of my own, and still nothing. The person was back for a while, but then they left again.

2. I don't suppose you've seen my Tumblr post on the chief producer of PP7 and 20th Anniversary talking about his idea of SEGA making a 'Puyo Puyo Tensei' game? It was something he brought up during SEGA's TGS 2017 presentation of how they plan to revitalize all of their IPs (Puyo Puyo included).

1. I don't even know who runs that blog, to be honest.

2, I saw it on Twitter first, but yeah interesting statement, whether or not we will get a game like that remains to be seen.

 

[puyokid]

I am admittedly a big fan of the Sig/Raffine relationship (I even like to ship em'), especially since I'm always in favor of highlighting Raffine and Klug's sympathetic qualities more often.

I was just about to make screenshots when I remembered that she has three quotes each for both, they all play into what I said though.

Ringo :

Sig :

The difference is pretty notable, since even in her ''proper lady'' quote she doesn't attack or talk down on him in any way.

While I don't actively ship Sig x Raffine, I'll admit that the idea of them together does sound pretty adorable.

Shipping aside, I rather enjoy the relationship she holds with Sig (as well as the ones she has with Rider and Tarutaru), as it shows how much Raffine has really mellowed out after Fever 2/15th. Ever since those games, I can safely say that her jerkass moments have certainly been far and few in between these days. If anything, she's actually rather supportive of the aforementioned three, as well as even Amitie in her own haughty way.

Worse comes to worst, she only seems to lash out at them when they do or say something to tick her off (which I suppose is...reasonable?), something which Klug is almost purposely guilty of doing.

Heck, Amitie (in PPT) even implies to the others how Raffine seem to have really mellowed out after Fever 1 or so. Supposedly, she's still a jerk, but she's MUCH more tolerable than before. Not to mention that Arle (in Fever 2) even mutters to Carbuncle under her breath that Raffine reminds her of Rulue, albeit not as aggressive. Granted, even Rulue's not THAT bad (at least, when it doesn't pertain to Satan).

Also, if I remember correctly, when Ringo defeats her in PP7, she becomes MUCH more respectful towards her and her Puyo-playing skills. It just goes to show that if you impress Raffine enough, she'll actually be much more respectful to you all the same.

It's good enough, I'm just not all that invested in that plot point personally, since it feels very half assed to me.

Honestly, I wonder why SEGA even used her beanie as a plot point in 20th. Is it possible that they DID want to go somewhere with it, but the idea got dropped along the way (just like almost EVERY other plot point from the Fever duology prior)? I mean, I won't hold TOO much stock in the idea, but I find it a little cute and fun to think about.

1. I don't even know who runs that blog, to be honest.

Oh, OK. Thanks anyway.

2. I saw it on Twitter first, but yeah interesting statement, whether or not we will get a game like that remains to be seen.

Oh, OK. Say, I have two new questions for you, if you don't mind.

1. Basically, what would you expect out of 'Puyo Puyo Tensei'? A Shin Megami Tensei game with Puyo elements or a Puyo game with SMT elements? Maybe the spiritual successor to Madou Monogatari featuring the current cast of characters and settings introduced in Fever 1, Fever 2, and Puyo 7, in addition to the original Madou-era Puyo cast. From the fanart I've seen of this series, it looks like Puyo Puyo going with a slightly more dramatic tone wouldn't be impossible.

2. Would you mind reblogging this?

https://puyohero.tumblr.com/post/165734527980/huh-never-thought-id-see-something-like#notes

You don't have to, obviously. Just asking, is all.

 

[warelander]

Also, if I remember correctly, when Ringo defeats her in PP7, she becomes MUCH more respectful towards her and her Puyo-playing skills. It just goes to show that if you impress Raffine enough, she'll actually be much more respectful to you all the same.

Yeah, also it's been hinted in her dream fantasies in the second Light Novel that the kind of man she is looking for would be one that can actually put up a fight in physical combat and Sig is noted to be surprisingly strong, Raffine even notes in 20th that his red arm has some noticable muscle to it (not that the artstyle shows it) and she even calls it magnificent so perhaps that's how the two started to get closer, since in that context Sig would absolutely be someone she'd take interest in.

Honestly, I wonder why SEGA even used her beanie as a plot point in 20th. Is it possible that they DID want to go somewhere with it, but the idea got dropped along the way (just like almost EVERY other plot point from the Fever duology prior)? I mean, I won't hold TOO much stock in the idea, but I find it a little cute and fun to think about.

I guess they wanted to pull a Strange Klug, where a previously already existing element (the demon was always with Klug, even in Fever 1) get's elaborated upon and becomes something much bigger and I do like that approach, but the Puyo Beanie plot just doesn't even feel all that relevant to Amitie, considering that she didn't even have the beanie until PP7.

1. Basically, what would you expect out of 'Puyo Puyo Tensei'? A Shin Megami Tensei game with Puyo elements or a Puyo game with SMT elements? Maybe the spiritual successor to Madou Monogatari featuring the current cast of characters and settings introduced in Fever 1, Fever 2, and Puyo 7, in addition to the original Madou-era Puyo cast. From the fanart I've seen of this series, it looks like Puyo Puyo going with a slightly more dramatic tone wouldn't be impossible.

A SMT game with Puyo elements seems like the safest bet to me and I have little problem to believe that Puyo could translate into a more dramatic setting, if anything there are moments where I wished it would have gone into that kind of territory, heck, if they actually gave the whole cast a part in her story and played it up more dramatically then Dark Arle in PP7 could have actually meant something.

2. Would you mind reblogging this?

https://puyohero.tumblr.com/post/165734527980/huh-never-thought-id-see-something-like#notes

Nah, I don't mind.

 

[warelander]

Also, another round of 7 star character cards have arrived, this time with the Boss!? series, here's the art :

Not gonna lie, I'm not a fan of how Satan, Ecolo, Strange Klug and Accord only have redrawn versions of some of their 20th spell animations, I mean they do look nicer then the sprites, but I was hoping for original art, like the previous characters got.

 

[puyokid]

Yeah, also it's been hinted in her dream fantasies in the second Light Novel that the kind of man she is looking for would be one that can actually put up a fight in physical combat and Sig is noted to be surprisingly strong, Raffine even notes in 20th that his red arm has some noticeable muscle to it (not that the artstyle shows it) and she even calls it magnificent so perhaps that's how the two started to get closer, since in that context Sig would absolutely be someone she'd take interest in.

Yeah, I remember seeing that in the aforementioned LN. That being said, I forgot how Raffine reacted AFTER her Puyo battle with Sig, following the "revelation" that he doesn't really work out and that his arm was always like that. If my memory serves me correctly, she didn't exactly hold it against him, but she still wasn't necessarily happy after the whole thing, bleivng that Sig tricked all this and whatnot.

I guess they wanted to pull a Strange Klug, where a previously already existing element (the demon was always with Klug, even in Fever 1) get's elaborated upon and becomes something much bigger and I do like that approach, but the Puyo Beanie plot just doesn't even feel all that relevant to Amitie, considering that she didn't even have the beanie until PP7.

Yeah, that seems to be the case. You know what's weird though? I think Puyo Quest actually continues the 'Puyo beanie mystery' sub-plot, but SEGA went in a slightly different direction. Specifically, they now appear to be using Red Amitie as the main focus of that sub-plot rather than normal Amitie.

BTW, it's weird. I always thought Amitie's Puyo beanie was there since Fever 1, but...you know. Design changes and whatnot gave it the look it's currently using ever since PP7.

A SMT game with Puyo elements seems like the safest bet to me and I have little problem to believe that Puyo could translate into a more dramatic setting. If anything, there are moments where I wished it would have gone into that kind of territory. Heck, if they actually gave the whole cast a part in her story and played it up more dramatically, then Dark Arle in PP7 could have actually meant something.

Um...I'm sorry. I'm a bit confused. From the way the first thing is worded, you seem to make it sound like the game should be 'SMT with various Puyo elements sprinkled within the game', but the next part you bring up seems to be Puyo Puyo with a somewhat light-hearted SMT setting'. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just a bit confused, is all. From what I CAN gather, it seems like you'd want 'Puyo Puyo Tensei' to go the latter route I described, am I right?

Personally, I feel that the game could go with the somber tone Yo~n had, make the whole thing coherent and they'd be more or less set for the story.

Also, I'd like to add that I completely agree with you about Dark Arle. Funny thing is, I was thinking about the usage of her in PP7 today, and I then thought about how SEGA seems to have given Strange Klug way more to work with in Fever 2. All in all, I thought that Dark Arle was more or less a joke in PP7, even as a Red Herring-type character. The concept of Arle joining the forces of darkness had a lot of potential in my eyes, and SEGA just dumped on that hard.

Also, another round of 7 star character cards have arrived, this time with the Boss!? series, here's the art :

Not gonna lie, I'm not a fan of how Satan, Ecolo, Strange Klug and Accord only have redrawn versions of some of their 20th spell animations, I mean they do look nicer then the sprites, but I was hoping for original art, like the previous characters got.

Yeah, I saw this art elsewhere today. I like the art, but couldn't SEGA have gone for something a little more...dynamic? Heck, that's what sort of bothers me about a majority (if not the ENTIRETY) of the 7* art for Puyo Quest lately. Maybe it's just me, but (believe it or not) no one's truly "popped out" to me so far. They don't have to be flashy or anything of the sort, but...

 

[warelander]

Yeah, I remember seeing that in the aforementioned LN. That being said, I forgot how Raffine reacted AFTER her Puyo battle with Sig, following the "revelation" that he doesn't really work out and that his arm was always like that. If my memory serves me correctly, she didn't exactly hold it against him, but she still wasn't necessarily happy after the whole thing, bleivng that Sig tricked all this and whatnot.

I think she got the point that Sig didn't trick her, but she certainly still was rather moody about it.

BTW, it's weird. I always thought Amitie's Puyo beanie was there since Fever 1, but...you know. Design changes and whatnot gave it the look it's currently using ever since PP7.

I guess you could get away with calling it a redesign, but at least for me changing the design so casually and not bothering to acknowledge the change at all just adds a bit of a disconnect towards the idea that it's such a big deal of her character. At least that's how I feel, for me it's the equivalent of Luigi's cap suddenly being orange, instead of green.

Um...I'm sorry. I'm a bit confused. From the way the first thing is worded, you seem to make it sound like the game should be 'SMT with various Puyo elements sprinkled within the game', but the next part you bring up seems to be Puyo Puyo with a somewhat light-hearted SMT setting'. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just a bit confused, is all. From what I CAN gather, it seems like you'd want 'Puyo Puyo Tensei' to go the latter route I described, am I right?

I suppose I could have been more clear since I was mainly talking about gameplay, when mentioning a SMT game with Puyo elements, while also asserting that Puyo can work in a dramatic setting.

Yeah, I saw this art elsewhere today. I like the art, but couldn't SEGA have gone for something a little more...dynamic? Heck, that's what sort of bothers me about a majority (if not the ENTIRETY) of the 7* art for Puyo Quest lately. Maybe it's just me, but (believe it or not) no one's truly "popped out" to me so far. They don't have to be flashy or anything of the sort, but...

You think so? I dunno, I actually like all of the 7* art so far a lot more then the 6* versions.