(Development Suspended Indefinitely) ROM Hack: Wario Land 3: The Master Quest!

CaptainDrewBoy

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Just wanted to mention something:

Someone at Romhacking.net seems to have panned the hack as not looking fun to play at all

The topic of the post:

And the post itself:
This message was posted by: Isao Kronos on January 30, 2019

Well here's my rebuttal:

"The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time Master Quest was a modified version of the original game, with new gimmicks, harder puzzles, different placements of enemies, etc. Wario Land 3: The Master Quest was inspired by this official "hack" of OoT which actually features some of the EXACT SAME types of changes to the levels! If you say that Wario Land 3 Master Quest does not sound like any fun at all, just because all the levels are harder, does that mean that Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time Master Quest is not fun to play because all the dungeons are harder, and may I remind you that that is EXACTLY what this hack HOPES to accomplish! Do you not like Zelda Ocarina of Time Master Quest? That's what you seem to be getting at!"

Does anyone here agree with my rebuttal, or disagree? Do you think Isao Kronos' opinion should be a valid point? I personally do not think he has a valid point, because like I said: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest exists, and the hack aims to mimic said game! But please let me know what you think!
I like that you wish to defend your project. That's important.
But... I don't like your response here.

1) The user may dislike the way you made the game harder. You yourself had to restart 300 odd times - and you made it!

2) You keep bringing up the Zelda hack. Wario is not Zelda, and he may not like the Zelda hack anyway!

3) I don't say this out of hate. I don't. I just want you to think the next time you flame someone who dislikes your hack. Sure, their criticism was not constructive - but neither was yours. Be the better (wo)man.
 

Tiger21820

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You're absolutely right. I was a little too hard on him. I take back everything I said.
 
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CM30

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Honestly, I'd probably agree with them. It's a neat project, but things like being booted straight to the title screen don't sound particularly fun.

P.S. You misspelt a few words in the description. Namely the ones in all caps.
 

Tiger21820

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It really all depends on the targeted players, and who play it. Some people (like me) will really enjoy the extra challenge, and some people will never want to have anything to do with it... I hope people at least give it a try! I will fix the episode names, spell check didn't detect them... :/ (What words are wrong? I did a spell check on the names, but they were correct... Some words were wrong, but they are fixed now... If you're referring to "NO MORE CURRENT TRAPS", that means after finding the hand flippers, the currents that would sweep you into skull tiles without hopes of escape will no longer effect you! Hence, "no more current traps"!)

Anyone can also watch the ongoing playthrough of the hack on YouTube, and I guess who better to do a video series of the hack then the one who created it!

But one thing is that I needed to be more open to criticism, and all of you were right. People are going to either love the hack, or they are going to hate it. It depends on who the hack is aimed for, and who will end up playing it.

So with that said:
This hack is aimed for more experienced players!
It takes lots of trial and error to get through it, so if skills requiring precision, patience, and reaction are not your virtues, then I do not recommend this hack, and would consider playing something else!

If anyone has ever managed to complete it (I appear to be the only one so far), then congrats, you are beyond amazing! If you did it in less than 169 restarts, then you have REALLY put me to shame, and are the new crowned master of Wario Land 3: Master Quest! (I really hope to add people to the credits' hall of fame soon)
 
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CaptainDrewBoy

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Fustrating, obnoxious design isn't difficulty.
So... market it as such!
If your game is unfair, be proud of it!
Just let people know what they're in for, because it's more than difficulty.

Not trying to undermine the hack, I just don't think you understand what you've created.
 

CaptainDrewBoy

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I am not sure how many people have played or completed this hack, because I cannot find anyone posting YouTube videos or even discussing anything about it, but, please, if you can, tell everyone about it! What is the best way for me to promote a hack without asking anyone to actually play it?
Find some unpopular Twitch streamers playing Wario Hacks?
They might play it if you ask nicely...
 

Tiger21820

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I actually updated the romhacking.net entry adding the disclaimer regarding the nature of the hack!

But skill doesn't have to be about soft resets, that encourages the use of save states.
It would be better if it were more like WL2's The Really Final Chapter.
It's got challange, but you only have to redo one room at most.
It would take a long time to change the hack to fit what you specified... A possibility would be to change sector warp destinations so that skull tiles warp you back to a specific point in the level rather than kick you back to the title screen, but that would be a huge pain to implement... I would have to define a destination for around 99 different sectors (I counted), and I would have to change the same sector 8 times!

I would love to make it so if a warp in a sector with an undefined destination is triggered, it will cause a game over to occur! Of course, that would be made as a separate hack, because imagine having to restart the level EVERY time you hit a skull tile... I admit no one would want to EVER play that if it is the only option! It would require ASM to do, and I unfortunately know nothing about it... I have a gameshark code that triggers a game over though! I could also make an easy mode of the game too! This is discussion I like, because we can talk about what I can improve or change in the hack! But the current hack will never change, but I can make variations of the hack to make it less reliant on saving or to make it easier!

Find some unpopular Twitch streamers playing Wario Hacks?
They might play it if you ask nicely...
I made a YouTube series of me completing it, with new parts coming out each day! The Wario Forums exclusive playlist is on the first post!

Also, the bank seems kind of weird, so if anyone does complete the hack in fewer than 169 restarts, the prize will be withheld until cheat-master30 fixes it! The prize will go to the first member no matter what, so if the record is broken before the prize can be given out, the first member still gets it! The contest just basically ends the MOMENT someone announces their record-breaking completion of the hack (with proof of course!)!
The contest has been canceled on Wario Forums!
 
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It would take a long time to change the hack to fit what you specified... A possibility would be to change sector warp destinations so that skull tiles warp you back to a specific point in the level rather than kick you back to the title screen, but that would be a huge pain to implement... I would have to define a destination for around 99 different sectors (I counted), and I would have to change the same sector 8 times!
I'm not saying that, I dont think there would be a way to change the hack easily.
But like, maybe you should have designed it differently in the first place?
Are the Skull Tiles really necessary, when the Wario Land 3 engine isn't built around that?

Look at that platforming section in one of the crater levels - that was a challange requiring the player to do crouch jumps and dash jumps, but only dropping down lower if the player fails.
Same with The Really Final Chapter - player drops down, or the fast current takes them back.

That is how the hack should have been designed, in my opinion.
That would be difficulty, but playable without savestates.
 

Tiger21820

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I can make a no skull tile version!

All skull tiles would be covered up or removed so it can be used as preparation for the real thing!

I am working on it now! What I am doing is slightly modifying the levels to either cover or remove all skull tiles, while keeping the trial and error. In this version, you won't have to use any save states for the most part, but the bosses that send you back to the title screen will still do that! The robo-mouse in E1 The Stagnant Swamp will be deleted too! Also some falling snow will be removed as well! Do you think it will be a good way to introduce potential players to the hack and for them to get a good feel of what it's like before the do the real thing?
 
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CaptainDrewBoy

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I can make a no skull tile version!

All skull tiles would be covered up or removed so it can be used as preparation for the real thing!

I am working on it now! What I am doing is slightly modifying the levels to either cover or remove all skull tiles, while keeping the trial and error. In this version, you won't have to use any save states for the most part, but the bosses that send you back to the title screen will still do that! The robo-mouse in E1 The Stagnant Swamp will be deleted too! Also some falling snow will be removed as well! Do you think it will be a good way to introduce potential players to the hack and for them to get a good feel of what it's like before the do the real thing?
Advertise it as the 'fair edition'. This is fairer... FOR S O F T I E S.
 

Tiger21820

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I'm advertising it as Wario Land 3: The Master Quest Practice Easy Mode! For now I will host it only here (and now)!

What has changed:
1. Skull Tiles have either been removed, or covered (so it is not possible to be kicked back to the title screen except from certain bosses)
2. Robo-Mouse and falling snow were removed from E1 The Stagnant Swamp
3. Falling snow was removed from E3 Castle of Illusions
4. Various tweaks to levels

So here you go!

*Removed the attachment, making some last minute changes*
It's back!
 

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Tiger21820

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First review of Wario Land 3 Master Quest! Is it a Masterpiece? Let's find out!

darkgamer360 said:
MasterQuest Has Potential To Be Better
Reviewed By: darkgamer360 on 31 Jul 2019

Having completing from beginning to end I can now add my input. The first level was ridiculously frustrating. However the most difficult level of all I believe to be would the Above The Clouds Level. That was just way way too hard. This game has to played on a emulator with save/load state options because playing this on hardware would have been almost impossible to beat. I also noticed a glitch in the stagnant swamp level that when the robot mouse falls into the hole a few seconds later the whole level glitches out and everything starting falling because the ground disappeared. I don’t if this was intentional or not but the first level with the face tree, the boss that supposed to have a spider boss was replaced with the hammer barrel boss from the volcano but was super glitchy. The concept of master quest / hard mode was a great idea but it didn’t feel as linear and the placement of blocks from super narrow passages to blocks at the edge of the sky where i had to make crouching jumps just to fit and move forward with the story was too claustrophobic for a wario land game that is made for open maneuvering and exploration.

Version 003 Recommended - No
Heh heh, sorry, but that was the intention all along!

Tiger's thoughts:

Unfortunately the review was negative, and did sting a bit, it did eventually become something I have waited years for: Their experiences of the difficulty of the hack!!

I don't think there is anything that I will change in the hack because the aim was to make the hack extremely difficult, and I can see that it finally paid off!

Remember that this hack is not for everyone, and it is up to personal desires and the only ones who will probably enjoy it are the biggest Wario Fans, and those who enjoy challenges! Don't forget that saving and quitting saves your location rendering emulator save states unnecessary!

SOMEONE PLAYED IT AND IT WAS HARD!! So that makes the review a POSITIVE for me! I can make the game harder, and I know that there are others who are totally into these kinds of things, and it's intention was met!

Thank you darkgamer360 for the enlightening review, and congratulations for finishing the game! The hack was intended to be frustrating to slog through, and to be rewarding upon completion (Sadly I did not see that in the review... I think that after getting though a super difficult hack, one should be satisfied to have conquered it, but I guess that just wasn't the case here...)

I'm glad the hack was played and someone has experienced the difficulty of it, and while the review was negative and stung at first, the review was about the INTENDED NATURE of the hack! The hack delivered the experience it was aiming for, and I am ok with that!

My final thoughts:

Was it a Masterpiece? The answer is sadly... No... Did it deliver the experience the hack was intending to deliver? Yes it did!

I hope that it will get a positive response praising the difficulty of the hack one day, but I guess today isn't that day... Oh well...
 
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CaptainDrewBoy

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First review of Wario Land 3 Master Quest! Is it a Masterpiece? Let's find out!



Heh heh, sorry, but that was the intention all along!

Tiger's thoughts:

Unfortunately the review was negative, and did sting a bit, it did eventually become something I have waited years for: Their experiences of the difficulty of the hack!!

I don't think there is anything that I will change in the hack because the aim was to make the hack extremely difficult, and I can see that it finally paid off!

Remember that this hack is not for everyone, and it is up to personal desires and the only ones who will probably enjoy it are the biggest Wario Fans, and those who enjoy challenges! Don't forget that saving and quitting saves your location rendering emulator save states unnecessary!

SOMEONE PLAYED IT AND IT WAS HARD!! So that makes the review a POSITIVE for me! I can make the game harder, and I know that there are others who are totally into these kinds of things, and it's intention was met!

Thank you darkgamer360 for the enlightening review, and congratulations for finishing the game! The hack was intended to be frustrating to slog through, and to be rewarding upon completion (Sadly I did not see that in the review... I think that after getting though a super difficult hack, one should be satisfied to have conquered it, but I guess that just wasn't the case here...)

I'm glad the hack was played and someone has experienced the difficulty of it, and while the review was negative and stung at first, the review was about the INTENDED NATURE of the hack! The hack delivered the experience it was aiming for, and I am ok with that!

My final thoughts:

Was it a Masterpiece? The answer is sadly... No... Did it deliver the experience the hack was intending to deliver? Yes it did!

I hope that it will get a positive response praising the difficulty of the hack one day, but I guess today isn't that day... Oh well...
Yeah, from what I see it appeals to a specific audience who want mega-kaizo. Not for everyone, but at least it plays
how you want it to!
 

Tiger21820

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And that's what matters, right? I still feel bad about the first reaction I made a couple months back...

One lesson to be learned from this is that people are not always going to like something you make! That's just life! Negative hack reviews are always painful at best, especially if you pour your heart and soul into making it, but if the reviewer mentions things about the hack that was intended, then mission accomplished!

That's what happened with the review above (he actually praised the concept of the hack, which I appreciated), he gave an honest opinion regarding the gameplay, and while it wasn't the kind of review I hoped for, in the end, it did deliver the kind of experience that I expected it to, and that's a win in my books! I hope someday one makes a positive review on it, but it will take the right person who is in to these kinds of things to make that review!

It is a very different hack when compared to the original though! The main objective of the game is the more or less the same, but how you go about reaching that objective is a bit different! Some people will enjoy these changes, and some people prefer playing it the way they are used to playing it!
 
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CaptainDrewBoy

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And that's what matters, right? I still feel bad about the first reaction I made a couple months back... could you edit the quote out of the post commenting about the inappropriate reaction please?

One lesson to be learned from this is that people are not always going to like something you make! That's just life! Negative hack reviews are always painful at best, especially if you pour your heart and soul into making it, but if the reviewer mentions things about the hack that was intended, then mission accomplished!

That's what happened with the review above (he actually praised the concept of the hack, which I appreciated), he gave an honest opinion regarding the gameplay, and while it wasn't the kind of review I hoped for, in the end, it did deliver the kind of experience that I expected it to, and that's a win in my books! I hope someday one makes a positive review on it, but it will take the right person who is in to these kinds of things to make that review!

It is a very different hack when compared to the original though!
Yeah! Exactly what I meant! YOU made what YOU wanted to make, and that's good!
(Also, I will edit that quote out for you!)
 

Tiger21820

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Nintendo has gone rouge, so out of fear of copyright claims, all my Wario Land 3 Master Quest Videos are private until further notice...
 
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