[Poll] Thoughts on Waluigi?
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I like him quite a bit, some of my thoughts on him can be found here:
http://warioforums.com/index.php?threads/do-you-like-waluigi.550/
Generally speaking there are two things I really love about him:
First off his animations and soundclips are often extremly goofy, Strikers Charged in particular really has him at his best in my opinion (two words: crotch chop).
Secondly because of the lack of definement regarding what Waluigi's abilitys are the devs can do with him whatever the hell they want. One day he could be swimming in the air, the next day he could be creating thorn walls and on a different day his main shtick could be dancing, it's always something different with this guy and I like that.
As I said in the Syrup>Waluigi thread: yes he is a lazy character in his conception and his mere existence is superfluous since Syrup could have easily been used as Wario's partner instead, but that still doesn't stop me from enjoying the character and when I look at Waluigi, the things I like about him and then look at the likes of Daisy, who does nothing but give me a headache with her infernal yelling, then I honestly don't see why I should be obligated to see her as a superior character just because she didn't debut in a spin off game.
http://warioforums.com/index.php?threads/do-you-like-waluigi.550/
Generally speaking there are two things I really love about him:
First off his animations and soundclips are often extremly goofy, Strikers Charged in particular really has him at his best in my opinion (two words: crotch chop).
Secondly because of the lack of definement regarding what Waluigi's abilitys are the devs can do with him whatever the hell they want. One day he could be swimming in the air, the next day he could be creating thorn walls and on a different day his main shtick could be dancing, it's always something different with this guy and I like that.
As I said in the Syrup>Waluigi thread: yes he is a lazy character in his conception and his mere existence is superfluous since Syrup could have easily been used as Wario's partner instead, but that still doesn't stop me from enjoying the character and when I look at Waluigi, the things I like about him and then look at the likes of Daisy, who does nothing but give me a headache with her infernal yelling, then I honestly don't see why I should be obligated to see her as a superior character just because she didn't debut in a spin off game.
BooDestroyer
Treasure Collector Extraordinaire
In regards to Daisy, the one thing that puts me off about her is that she has this weird, deformed doll face that would scare the crap out of Chucky.
That, in combination with her equally awful voice...Ugh.
Yeah, I don't even know what the hell people see in her.
How could I miss another oportunity to bitch about Wally <333
I aint gonna say he's the one to blame for this, but what pisses me off the most is that he sure as fuck represents Ninty's stupid and unoriginal decisions when it comes to its cast for the spinoffs. As soon as Wario got his own game he stopped being an evil Mario clone because there was so much he could do without being tied to the red plumber. Waluigi being there is a constant reminder that Nintendo doesn't give a shit about this, because he's there to confirm the fact 'wa' versions are a thing and that Wario is nothing more than that. It's kinda like they're trying to say we need 2 of everyone in the cast, making it formulaic and boring.
Say whatever you want about Daisy, but there's a very important thing about her that makes her different from Waluigi: her appearance as Peach's partner doesn't weight the pink princess down as a character. She has enough characterization to stand on her own without having to cling to any other member of the cast in order to have some personality. Only thing she takes from Peach is the 'rescue the princess' plot, and beyond that she's got her own kingdom (with a very unique theming) and a personality that no other recurring character from the series has.
Hell, it can't be a coincidence that she comes from the LAND games as well as Wario and Syrup, by extension. All three characters have gotten the shittiest possible treatment given the potential they show in actual games, and that's without having to make shit up in order to make them interesting. It took ONE game for each of them to give them all the characterization they needed. Waluigi's been going on for 15 years and all he's got to stand up for himself is a bunch of meaningless 'facts' that show up in manuals but not in any game, silly animations that don't even help to make a cohesive character out of him, and still zero explanation as to why he keeps showing up despite being made by a third party company for absolutely no reason.
Kinda goes to show Ninty prefers a boring pattern because its easier than making up a unique cast.
I aint gonna say he's the one to blame for this, but what pisses me off the most is that he sure as fuck represents Ninty's stupid and unoriginal decisions when it comes to its cast for the spinoffs. As soon as Wario got his own game he stopped being an evil Mario clone because there was so much he could do without being tied to the red plumber. Waluigi being there is a constant reminder that Nintendo doesn't give a shit about this, because he's there to confirm the fact 'wa' versions are a thing and that Wario is nothing more than that. It's kinda like they're trying to say we need 2 of everyone in the cast, making it formulaic and boring.
Say whatever you want about Daisy, but there's a very important thing about her that makes her different from Waluigi: her appearance as Peach's partner doesn't weight the pink princess down as a character. She has enough characterization to stand on her own without having to cling to any other member of the cast in order to have some personality. Only thing she takes from Peach is the 'rescue the princess' plot, and beyond that she's got her own kingdom (with a very unique theming) and a personality that no other recurring character from the series has.
Hell, it can't be a coincidence that she comes from the LAND games as well as Wario and Syrup, by extension. All three characters have gotten the shittiest possible treatment given the potential they show in actual games, and that's without having to make shit up in order to make them interesting. It took ONE game for each of them to give them all the characterization they needed. Waluigi's been going on for 15 years and all he's got to stand up for himself is a bunch of meaningless 'facts' that show up in manuals but not in any game, silly animations that don't even help to make a cohesive character out of him, and still zero explanation as to why he keeps showing up despite being made by a third party company for absolutely no reason.
Kinda goes to show Ninty prefers a boring pattern because its easier than making up a unique cast.
I understand that stance, but I seriously have to ask how Daisy of all characters has potential, while Waluigi is appearently unsalvageable.
For one thing the "actual games" comment is a little fishy in my opinion since a lot of the Mario cast tends to show more personality in spin off's anyway and while her kingdom is extremly unique and off the wall bonkers, Daisy herself doesn't have any of that, she is just the Peach of this particular game, even to the point of having a variation of the "Princess is in another castle" routine and having a personality different from everyone else in the cast loses all meaning when it's an obnoxious one, it only makes her alone stand out as that one annoying twat and not much else.
If Daisy clinging to the uniquness of the world of her debut game, despite not potraying any of it herself counts as potential, then I don't see how everything Waluigi does that makes people like him is worthless and while I agree that the inclusion of more "Wa" counterparts is underselling Wario himself big time ,it's still possible to move Waluigi into a different direction to at least downplay the "Wa version of a different character" side of things, I mean hey, if fucking Daisy appearently has this potential I don't see how Waluigi can't have it as well, both are equally underused anyway.
For one thing the "actual games" comment is a little fishy in my opinion since a lot of the Mario cast tends to show more personality in spin off's anyway and while her kingdom is extremly unique and off the wall bonkers, Daisy herself doesn't have any of that, she is just the Peach of this particular game, even to the point of having a variation of the "Princess is in another castle" routine and having a personality different from everyone else in the cast loses all meaning when it's an obnoxious one, it only makes her alone stand out as that one annoying twat and not much else.
If Daisy clinging to the uniquness of the world of her debut game, despite not potraying any of it herself counts as potential, then I don't see how everything Waluigi does that makes people like him is worthless and while I agree that the inclusion of more "Wa" counterparts is underselling Wario himself big time ,it's still possible to move Waluigi into a different direction to at least downplay the "Wa version of a different character" side of things, I mean hey, if fucking Daisy appearently has this potential I don't see how Waluigi can't have it as well, both are equally underused anyway.
How else are you supposed to define a character in a Game Boy game beyond the things that you mentioned?
Yes, the kingdom that she ruled and the "OH! DAISY" things were the defining traits she had at the time, what of it? See, the advantage in making a character have some sort of importance to the game's world is that they can be defined by it. For example, take Final Fight. Metro City is a crime capital and that shows from the background direction and the game's focus on beating the shit out of criminals. Rescuing Jessica, the mayor Haggar's daughter, serves as a metaphor for making the city a better place through the actions the player takes which are then rationalised by the avatar.
In the same way, you can tell what sort of leader Daisy is how wacky things are in Sarasaland. Subtle implication of a story is a relic of old games that came from the limitation of the medium, so this is when the game itself would tell its narrative. You can't expect a game of its caliber to sit you down and give you 20 pages on why Daisy is who she is or something. And the thing is, would you want it to, even if it could?
Daisy's characterisation in the spinoffs is something that was beyond the control of R&D1, her creators, but even if you dislike how her personality is in said spinoffs, that's subjective. Looking past your own opinion and being ojective is important, and Daisy is worthwhile as an inclusion because she represents a series of specific Mario platformers that have defining traits to them. Even if I hated Daisy, I could still understand what she brings to the roster, since how she acts does mirror her bonkers kingdom, in a way, and I wouldn't protest her inclusion. For the record, I wouldn't have minded if Tatanga had been the rep for SML the whole time, either, at least the two of them are just as valid.
Waluigi is an objectively pitiful inclusion. No main-series achievements in the long time he's been around, and a completely unoriginal design. Daisy might not look the most unqiue, but her only main appearance gave her plenty to define her by, regardless of how valid you might consider it, and while I do agree that I don't endorse how she's been portrayed sometimes, her original appearance remains. Waluigi doesn't have something like that. He doesn't even have a unique personality, or at least one that really matters. The whole "cheater" excuse can fuck itself, since he doesn't demonstrate it. Consider Wario's capability to SHOW his greed through the mechanics of his own games, rather than just being told about them. Then consider Waluigi's apparently cheating nature, and that he never breaks rules any more than other characters in any respective appearance.
Even if someone were to hate SML with every fiber of their being, at least it's a game you can play that you can call a distinctive role for Daisy. The madness of her kingdom and mechanics such as the Sub and Sky pop justify her being a seperate character from Peach. There is not a thing Waluigi has done that couldn't have been done better by Syrup or another character, because he hasn't had any such roles. He's been carried on for fifteen fucking years so that people with OCD have the evil Luigi counterpart they need to make a group of four men in hats with emblems.
Yes, the kingdom that she ruled and the "OH! DAISY" things were the defining traits she had at the time, what of it? See, the advantage in making a character have some sort of importance to the game's world is that they can be defined by it. For example, take Final Fight. Metro City is a crime capital and that shows from the background direction and the game's focus on beating the shit out of criminals. Rescuing Jessica, the mayor Haggar's daughter, serves as a metaphor for making the city a better place through the actions the player takes which are then rationalised by the avatar.
In the same way, you can tell what sort of leader Daisy is how wacky things are in Sarasaland. Subtle implication of a story is a relic of old games that came from the limitation of the medium, so this is when the game itself would tell its narrative. You can't expect a game of its caliber to sit you down and give you 20 pages on why Daisy is who she is or something. And the thing is, would you want it to, even if it could?
Daisy's characterisation in the spinoffs is something that was beyond the control of R&D1, her creators, but even if you dislike how her personality is in said spinoffs, that's subjective. Looking past your own opinion and being ojective is important, and Daisy is worthwhile as an inclusion because she represents a series of specific Mario platformers that have defining traits to them. Even if I hated Daisy, I could still understand what she brings to the roster, since how she acts does mirror her bonkers kingdom, in a way, and I wouldn't protest her inclusion. For the record, I wouldn't have minded if Tatanga had been the rep for SML the whole time, either, at least the two of them are just as valid.
Waluigi is an objectively pitiful inclusion. No main-series achievements in the long time he's been around, and a completely unoriginal design. Daisy might not look the most unqiue, but her only main appearance gave her plenty to define her by, regardless of how valid you might consider it, and while I do agree that I don't endorse how she's been portrayed sometimes, her original appearance remains. Waluigi doesn't have something like that. He doesn't even have a unique personality, or at least one that really matters. The whole "cheater" excuse can fuck itself, since he doesn't demonstrate it. Consider Wario's capability to SHOW his greed through the mechanics of his own games, rather than just being told about them. Then consider Waluigi's apparently cheating nature, and that he never breaks rules any more than other characters in any respective appearance.
Even if someone were to hate SML with every fiber of their being, at least it's a game you can play that you can call a distinctive role for Daisy. The madness of her kingdom and mechanics such as the Sub and Sky pop justify her being a seperate character from Peach. There is not a thing Waluigi has done that couldn't have been done better by Syrup or another character, because he hasn't had any such roles. He's been carried on for fifteen fucking years so that people with OCD have the evil Luigi counterpart they need to make a group of four men in hats with emblems.
holy shit now THAT'S how you explain things <33333
I don't think there's much to compliment there, but the point is Daisy has a base to her character, that's what I meant when I said she had potential. I don't mind her appearance in the spinoff games (as ChanceTime said, her attitude kinda mirrors the kind of things that go on in her kingdom) but there was so much to do with what she had already SHOWN. Hell, imagine her with a more asian/desert themed dress and a bit more emphasis in how excited she is to be a part of the spinoffs, and base her specials on the appropriate themings besides flowers (vehicles such as the Sky Pop, something based around the bosses, hell even something resembling Tatanga if he himself doesn't appear). Just throwing silly examples around, but my point is all of that is something different and it wouldn't even be NEW; it's things that come from SML itself. If she's reduced to HI IM DAISY and you find that annoying it isn't her fault, it's the guys who are doing the spinoffs.
Exactly where is the potential coming from Waluigi's base or concept?
I don't think there's much to compliment there, but the point is Daisy has a base to her character, that's what I meant when I said she had potential. I don't mind her appearance in the spinoff games (as ChanceTime said, her attitude kinda mirrors the kind of things that go on in her kingdom) but there was so much to do with what she had already SHOWN. Hell, imagine her with a more asian/desert themed dress and a bit more emphasis in how excited she is to be a part of the spinoffs, and base her specials on the appropriate themings besides flowers (vehicles such as the Sky Pop, something based around the bosses, hell even something resembling Tatanga if he himself doesn't appear). Just throwing silly examples around, but my point is all of that is something different and it wouldn't even be NEW; it's things that come from SML itself. If she's reduced to HI IM DAISY and you find that annoying it isn't her fault, it's the guys who are doing the spinoffs.
Exactly where is the potential coming from Waluigi's base or concept?
I like how you are jumping to the conclusion that I'm talking about HI I'M DAISY when I say that I find her annoying based on absolutely nothing, because I actually never found that line annoying, it's her high-pitched yelling in games like Mario Kart Wii or Mario Party 8 that I hate and saying that it's nor her fault is pretty hypocritical after all it's not Waluigi's fault that he turned out the way he did and that nothing worthwhile has been done with him even to this day, the same can be said about any flawed fictional character ever.
As for Land being her basis, I honestly don't think that her appearence at the end of the game or her personality in later games (loud and spunky) translate to off the wall bonkers, but if you think differently I won't fight it, with that said I am a sucker for subtle details and story telling and actually really love the slight tan she has in Mario Tennis 64 to indicate what kind of kingdom she is from, in fact I don't mind her in either of her two N64 appearences and while I don't think that she represents Land well I'm at least glad that something from the game managed to live on on the long term, it's just that I find her annoying in a lot of her modern appearences and don't see why I should have to defend myself on that matter since that is very subjective to begin with.
I said it before: Waluigi is lazy from a conceptual standpoint, but I think it's hasty to say that NOTHING worthwhile could be done with him (since it hasn't even been attempted yet), especially because he isn't very defined in a lot of ways, which would allow the devs to go crazy and do whatever they want, just look at the Psycho Waluigi fangame, very unique and one of a kind, why not try to come up with a similary unique concept for a character who is fairly reconizable, but is still lacking in a certain "core" element that could define him, if you know what I mean.
As for Land being her basis, I honestly don't think that her appearence at the end of the game or her personality in later games (loud and spunky) translate to off the wall bonkers, but if you think differently I won't fight it, with that said I am a sucker for subtle details and story telling and actually really love the slight tan she has in Mario Tennis 64 to indicate what kind of kingdom she is from, in fact I don't mind her in either of her two N64 appearences and while I don't think that she represents Land well I'm at least glad that something from the game managed to live on on the long term, it's just that I find her annoying in a lot of her modern appearences and don't see why I should have to defend myself on that matter since that is very subjective to begin with.
I said it before: Waluigi is lazy from a conceptual standpoint, but I think it's hasty to say that NOTHING worthwhile could be done with him (since it hasn't even been attempted yet), especially because he isn't very defined in a lot of ways, which would allow the devs to go crazy and do whatever they want, just look at the Psycho Waluigi fangame, very unique and one of a kind, why not try to come up with a similary unique concept for a character who is fairly reconizable, but is still lacking in a certain "core" element that could define him, if you know what I mean.
BooDestroyer
Treasure Collector Extraordinaire
They've barely done anything of substance with her. Her homeland hasn't even amounted to anything in over 26 years. They keep mentioning it at times about her in some games, but does it actually mean anything anymore at this point? She may as well be a Mushroom Kingdom resident at this point. Why they can't at least put her in a Mario RPG is beyond me. (And I heard that R&D1 did not like making SML, but that's a whole other story)
I'm probably the only one here who still doesn't get what the heck Daisy's redeeming qualities are. Again, it's not just her voice, but she even looks weird.
I liked her "brown" look a bit better; Her current design's hair is fine, but should have kept the tan and the face that doesn't look like Chucky's nightmare.
And as for Waluigi and why he is what he is, well, let's just say that since 2000, the overall main Mario cast has become nothing more than a parody of itself. (I'll get to the rest of this later.)
I'm probably the only one here who still doesn't get what the heck Daisy's redeeming qualities are. Again, it's not just her voice, but she even looks weird.
I liked her "brown" look a bit better; Her current design's hair is fine, but should have kept the tan and the face that doesn't look like Chucky's nightmare.
And as for Waluigi and why he is what he is, well, let's just say that since 2000, the overall main Mario cast has become nothing more than a parody of itself. (I'll get to the rest of this later.)
It... still applies tho? what I meant is that Daisy has been reduced to that, an overly excited lady with an annoying voice, when there's SO much more they can do with her based on the game that actually presents her. Even if it's just a line or her whole attitude, it doesn't change that that's how the spinoff games have treated her character.
And of course she doesn't present Land well. That's exactly what I meant with my first post. She COULD and she still shows a few traces of that if you think hard enough, but the point is that there are things that could be used to improve her considerably and make her a proper representant of the Land games, but the guys who make the spinoffs have fucked her up as well as Wario and... I won't say Syrup because they don't even acknowledge her existance.
You can dislike her if you want, I never said you couldn't! I'm just saying that Daisy at least has things to back her up. She has a concept to build from without having to make everything up in order to redeem her. As for Waluigi, you even said it yourself:
...He lacks any integrity, to the point any sort of gimmick doesn't even belong to the character itself as he's just an empty shell to fill in with whatever the devs feel like at the time. This is what I mean when I say he doesn't have any potential: there's nothing to Waluigi himself that you can pick up and make a character out of. Quite the opposite: they have to keep making things up in order to justify him being there. If anything I think Psycho Waluigi proves it even more: the gimmick of the game is interesting but you could replace Waluigi with anyone and it'd be the exact same thing.
Hell, just as a conclusion to make the point clear: Daisy's is a case of ruining a perfectly alright character. Waluigi has been a terrible concept from the start and hasn't gotten any better since. There isn't any misused potential, because there was never any to begin with.
It's true that Daisy has a concept and a game that can be used as a basis, but that still doesn't change that nothing has been done with her in that regard for decades now, I'm merely stating my opinion on Daisy as she is right now, if things get better with her I will change my tone accordingly, because it's not like I WANT to hate her (or anything else in existence for that matter), if you would care to enlighten me on where these traces of Daisy being a good rep. for Land are that would be nice, you have my attention.
As for Waluigi I don't deny any of the critizism brought uo against him, but I still think that he can be used in interesting ways, one example that just came to my mind is Waluigi's Island from Mario Party 3 :
While Waluigi lacks true defination in a lot of ares there are two things about him that are consistent: he is chaotic and he hates Luigi, both of these traits can be found here, the former thanks to some really potentially devestating board events and the latter trough some interesting bits of suptle story telling (how fitting that this practice has already been mentioned here) all the Luigi stuff makes it clear that the island must have belonged to Luigi and that Waluigi has conquered it and is now in the midst of tearing everything down and rebuilding it in his image.
It's an interesting way to portray these traits in stage form and something only Waluigi could do (remember this was before King Boo) since he was the closest thing to a personal nemesis Luigi had at the time.
Generally speaking I do think that Waluigi could be fleshed out fairly nicely if they either take the few things that are consistend about him and play them up a lot more or use a completely new concept aply it to him and make that a centerpoint of the character (like how Luigi's Mansion was the first game to REALLY establish Luigi's character), because no matter how one might feel about Waluigi it's clear that he isn't going to go anywhere anytime soon, so why not do something of substance with him?
As for Waluigi I don't deny any of the critizism brought uo against him, but I still think that he can be used in interesting ways, one example that just came to my mind is Waluigi's Island from Mario Party 3 :
While Waluigi lacks true defination in a lot of ares there are two things about him that are consistent: he is chaotic and he hates Luigi, both of these traits can be found here, the former thanks to some really potentially devestating board events and the latter trough some interesting bits of suptle story telling (how fitting that this practice has already been mentioned here) all the Luigi stuff makes it clear that the island must have belonged to Luigi and that Waluigi has conquered it and is now in the midst of tearing everything down and rebuilding it in his image.
It's an interesting way to portray these traits in stage form and something only Waluigi could do (remember this was before King Boo) since he was the closest thing to a personal nemesis Luigi had at the time.
Generally speaking I do think that Waluigi could be fleshed out fairly nicely if they either take the few things that are consistend about him and play them up a lot more or use a completely new concept aply it to him and make that a centerpoint of the character (like how Luigi's Mansion was the first game to REALLY establish Luigi's character), because no matter how one might feel about Waluigi it's clear that he isn't going to go anywhere anytime soon, so why not do something of substance with him?
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how special
What, so SML's subtle storytelling isn't worth shit for Daisy, but this for Waluigi is fine?
Well I'm glad I got your attention now so you can not completely dismiss my point </3
No, Daisy right now doesn't have shit that represents the Land series. Now. Because the spinoffs have fucked up a perfectly good character. What I can take as little hints to it are completely subjective just as the fact you don't like her, which is totally fine. That however does not erase the fact the original game still exists, which somehow doesn't count as a characterization point but a board in Mario Party 3 does justify Waluigi's existance?
Waluigi was made to be Luigi's nemesis, yes. How does that make things any better? if anything it shows that the only thing that justified his inclusion is gone and was never even shown but only adressed. Why does he have something against Luigi aside from the fact Wario had something against Mario? Wario and Mario's rivalry is the plot of a whole game, so even THAT has a reason to be. The most I see explored in this board is probably his liking to Piranha Plants, which was used again in Mario Strikers Charged and is probably so random of a trait that it could belong to anyone. Yoshi's stadium in Mario Baseball has them too, so how is it not a defining trait for Yoshi, for example? I think the best chance to give him something was DDR: Mario Mix, and even there he dances just like the rest of the cast and his motives are as boring as you can imagine for a villian, showing these traits are given to him just because.
I do understand the idea of trying to make something worthwhile with him, really, but I just find it unfair that we have to make something up in order to justify his existance when he himself has given nothing. He came out of nowhere, and people just accepted him because 'well he is Luigi's enemy because.. yeah, and teams up with Wario because... wah counterparts are now a thing! And he's evil because... uh, exactly! and he... likes... all of these things, I guess?''
No, Daisy right now doesn't have shit that represents the Land series. Now. Because the spinoffs have fucked up a perfectly good character. What I can take as little hints to it are completely subjective just as the fact you don't like her, which is totally fine. That however does not erase the fact the original game still exists, which somehow doesn't count as a characterization point but a board in Mario Party 3 does justify Waluigi's existance?
Waluigi was made to be Luigi's nemesis, yes. How does that make things any better? if anything it shows that the only thing that justified his inclusion is gone and was never even shown but only adressed. Why does he have something against Luigi aside from the fact Wario had something against Mario? Wario and Mario's rivalry is the plot of a whole game, so even THAT has a reason to be. The most I see explored in this board is probably his liking to Piranha Plants, which was used again in Mario Strikers Charged and is probably so random of a trait that it could belong to anyone. Yoshi's stadium in Mario Baseball has them too, so how is it not a defining trait for Yoshi, for example? I think the best chance to give him something was DDR: Mario Mix, and even there he dances just like the rest of the cast and his motives are as boring as you can imagine for a villian, showing these traits are given to him just because.
I do understand the idea of trying to make something worthwhile with him, really, but I just find it unfair that we have to make something up in order to justify his existance when he himself has given nothing. He came out of nowhere, and people just accepted him because 'well he is Luigi's enemy because.. yeah, and teams up with Wario because... wah counterparts are now a thing! And he's evil because... uh, exactly! and he... likes... all of these things, I guess?''
Plus I don't see how the notion of "he'd be good if this or that was added to him" is valid reasoning.
And no, Luigi's Mansion was not his first characterised appearance. His personality had already been set in place with SMB2.
And no, Luigi's Mansion was not his first characterised appearance. His personality had already been set in place with SMB2.
Yikes Spike
Not related with Wreck it Ralph.
It's true that Daisy has a concept and a game that can be used as a basis, but that still doesn't change that nothing has been done with her in that regard for decades now, I'm merely stating my opinion on Daisy as she is right now, if things get better with her I will change my tone accordingly, because it's not like I WANT to hate her (or anything else in existence for that matter), if you would care to enlighten me on where these traces of Daisy being a good rep. for Land are that would be nice, you have my attention.
As for Waluigi I don't deny any of the critizism brought uo against him, but I still think that he can be used in interesting ways, one example that just came to my mind is Waluigi's Island from Mario Party 3 :
While Waluigi lacks true defination in a lot of ares there are two things about him that are consistent: he is chaotic and he hates Luigi, both of these traits can be found here, the former thanks to some really potentially devestating board events and the latter trough some interesting bits of suptle story telling (how fitting that this practice has already been mentioned here) all the Luigi stuff makes it clear that the island must have belonged to Luigi and that Waluigi has conquered it and is now in the midst of tearing everything down and rebuilding it in his image.
It's an interesting way to portray these traits in stage form and something only Waluigi could do (remember this was before King Boo) since he was the closest thing to a personal nemesis Luigi had at the time.
Generally speaking I do think that Waluigi could be fleshed out fairly nicely if they either take the few things that are consistend about him and play them up a lot more or use a completely new concept aply it to him and make that a centerpoint of the character (like how Luigi's Mansion was the first game to REALLY establish Luigi's character), because no matter how one might feel about Waluigi it's clear that he isn't going to go anywhere anytime soon, so why not do something of substance with him?
Come to think about it, what if Waluigi is a character exclusive to the spin-offs, I mean take a deep at look those spin-offs they're fun games after all, especially Mario Kart; they gave him weird-themed tracks, catchy music, heck even a robot. There may be sports fans characters in the Mario Universe, but they always pick Waluigi for a sole purpose that nobody understands, Camelot's a company with great behavior like Rare? Miyamoto was involved in his creation that's why he cares about him? Its like the Koopa kids (nothing to do with the koopalings) which debuted in Mario party and stayed like that until Hudson Soft disappeared. Or maybe the developers add or remove characters when they feel like it.
I'm not saying that they are anything special or great, I'm just pointing out that they exist and are consistend, especially compared to everything else regarding Waluigi.
The only example of subtle storytelling in Land you gave me is that the crazyness of her kingdom can appearently tell you what Daisy is like, which I just see as an assumption, since Daisy herself does nothing to support that claim, so it's more of a headcanon rather then the game subtly giving you hints about a character that you later encounter and I know that it's a Game Boy game, but when looking at Wario and Captain Syrup who tell you everything you need to know about them with their actions, animations and designs (and playstyle in Wario's case), completely without the aid of dialog or anything else it doesn't exactly speak in Daisy's favor.
As for Luigi it's not the first time he was characterized, but it's the game that made his scaredy cat tendencys and fear of ghosts a true crux of the character.
I'm not saying it justifies his existence, I'm just pointing out an example of how these traits that already existed in his debut in Mario Tennis be represented and while Daisy has Land as a potential character point it still hasn't been used at all for longer than Waluigi even exists, so it really doesn't make anything better regardless of her having a base and the way her character has been handled being beyond the control of the team that created her.
Look, I'm no expert, all of my examples of how Waluigi could be improved are simply examples that I think could work, at the end of the day I really don't know what would be the objectivly best approach to take, but I just don't see how keeping a bad character that's going to stick around a bad character is a good idea regardless of the fact that nothing about him is explained, he has no real origin,etc, etc
because trying to salvage something about him might get some people that didn't like him to warm up to him and might give him a proper place in the Marioverse, but there really aren't any winners by just keeping him the way he is now.
Waluigi needs his own game. Or at least a Wario game with Waluigi. After all, he is Wario's best friend.
C'mon Nindendo! Make a Waluigi game. I just can't wait any longer.
C'mon Nindendo! Make a Waluigi game. I just can't wait any longer.
He'd be cool if they gave him some games.