It's official: Smash never wanted to represent Wario Land in the first place.

[ShyGuyXXL]

Zelda timeline? A more apt comparison would be them trying to decide if Link should have a sword and shield or not.
"Yeah, we COULD give him his sword... but you know what would be much more interesting? A crossbow! Or a mace! Or an egg beater!"

And don't put words in my mouth. You know I love Wario Ware and its characters. I just want a balance. Not one series getting way more attention than the other.
I've said this before, if Wario's content in smash was only Wario Land I wouldn't be happy either.

I just want his trademark move in the game. Is that too much to ask?

Wario without his shoulder charge is like Kirby without his suction. Like Yoshi without his tongue. Like Mario without his jump. Like Peach without her floating. Like Bowser without his fire breath. Like Olimar without his Pikmin. Like Ness and Lucas without their PSI. Like Sonic without his YEAH FÄST. Like Samus without her arm cannon. Like Mega man without his arm cannon. Like Dedede without his hammer. Like Pit without his bow. Like Metanight without his Galaxia. Like Little Mac without his punches. Like Pikachu without his electricity. Like Pacman without his eating. Like Shulk without his Monado. Like every Fire Emblem character without their swords. Like Bayonetta without her legs. Like Captain Falcon without his Falcon Punch. Like Jiggly Puff without its.... jiggle? Like Popo without Nana. Like Mr. Game & Watch without his two dimensions. Like Dr. Mario without his pills. Like Mewtwo without his edge.
You get the idea.

 

[Robin]

Like Jiggly Puff without its.... jiggle?

"Like Jigglypuff without its Sing move"

Man, I couldn't agree more... I mean, the shoulder dash is in the freakin' cover art of, at least, 2 games and every single Wario Land game has it, plus, the first WarioWare game has a microgame where he uses that same move. I'd be happy enough if it was a thing...

 

[ShyGuyXXL]

"Like Jigglypuff without its Sing move"

Yeah, that's better.

 

[King Hehehe]

Worst case scenario: a hitbox might have to be a bit different. Would that REALLY break the game?

Depends on the hitbox changes. Can't be much worse than the transition from Brawl's f-smash to Smash 4's f-smash.

 

[BooDestroyer]

We can't help but wonder what old Gunpei Yokoi might have thought in 1995, having just produced the glorious Virtual Boy Wario Land, had someone shown him Wario's present portrayal in a fighting game based around Nintendo history, in all its biased, fabricated glory.

For Christ's sake, Yokoi had nothing to do with Wario as a character. He focused only on hardware.
Sakurai also said somewhere that he and the team have to go through the original teams behind each series to approve of things. The WarioWare team, with the way they make those games now, seemed to have OK'd all that. Keyword being WarioWare.

Again, the Nintendo "history" thing is nothing but "fan-bricated" nonsense that everyone keeps putting on it. It isn't actually the main focus of the Smash series.


Also, I love how Sakurai has ruined everyone's definition of the term "director".

 

[Glowsquid]

fans may fixate on the "celebration of nintendo history" meme a bit too much, but fact is Smash sells itself in large part on being a crossover of all things Nintendo, and it features a ton of things (trophies, game releases list, "masterpieces" etc.) that are completely ancilliary to the fighting experience, but are about showing Nintendo's portfolio. In that respect, it's reasonable to criticize it if it represent its constituent series poorly.

 

[BooDestroyer]

fans may fixate on the "celebration of nintendo history" meme a bit too much, but fact is Smash sells itself in large part on being a crossover of all things Nintendo, and it features a ton of things (trophies, game releases list, "masterpieces" etc.) that are completely ancilliary to the fighting experience, but are about showing Nintendo's portfolio. In that respect, it's reasonable to criticize it if it represent its constituent series poorly.

You mean the parts of the game that most people don't actually check out or care about?

 

[ShyGuyXXL]

You mean the parts of the game that most people don't actually check out or care about?

What, just because not everyone might be interested in it means they shouldn't even try?

 

[Robin]

Ok! You guys are right, Smash was never a Nintendo history based series!
But "Wario" is "Wario", call it history or not, it's still a bit of disrespect for the team behind the design of Wario.
It's exactly as ShyGuyXXL mentioned, if Mario has fireballs, Wario should, at least, have his shoulder dash, make him feel more like the Wario we know...

 

[warelander]

You mean the parts of the game that most people don't actually check out or care about?

They still exist and continue to be brought back in larger quantitys in every new installment, so the point still stands.

 

[Dangerous Duck]

For Christ's sake, Yokoi had nothing to do with Wario as a character. He focused only on hardware.
Sakurai also said somewhere that he and the team have to go through the original teams behind each series to approve of things. The WarioWare team, with the way they make those games now, seemed to have OK'd all that. Keyword being WarioWare.

Again, the Nintendo "history" thing is nothing but "fan-bricated" nonsense that everyone keeps putting on it. It isn't actually the main focus of the Smash series.


Also, I love how Sakurai has ruined everyone's definition of the term "director".

I've read a few interviews in the past from R&D1 veterans who spoke about Yokoi's role and actions as head of the department. He was a mentor as much as a hardware man, and I don't just assume he crafted Wario, because I know that was Hiroji Kiyotake's work.
An example of Yokoi's involvement is how he oversaw the transition from Mario Land to Wario Land, which was an independent step for the studio, shifting them out of Miyamoto territory.

The prevailing theme of Nintendo history is more than just coincidence with Smash Bros. Consider the obscurity of characters like Ice Climbers, or the countless trophies, stickers, music/remixes, items, and other historic references throughout. You can't tell me Smash Bros isn't a celebration of Nintendo lore and history. Come on, now.

 

[Metal]

I wish F-zero was like smash, where in the game you just break out of your car and smash the other racer's face in yeaaaah!

 

[BooDestroyer]

They still exist and continue to be brought back in larger quantitys in every new installment, so the point still stands.

Don't prioritize things that aren't meant to be prioritized. That's what I'm getting at.

 

[ShyGuyXXL]

Yes, the main game is most important. But the other stuff should be good too.

 

[warelander]

Don't prioritize things that aren't meant to be prioritized. That's what I'm getting at.

A character in a crossover actually playing similary to how he/she does in his/her home series is too much to ask for and asking for the source material to be treated with a certain level of respect shouldn't be a priority?

 

[ShyGuyXXL]

A character in a crossover actually playing similary to how he/she does in his/her home series is too much to ask for and asking for the source material to be treated with a certain level of respect shouldn't be a priority?

I tell you, man! Link would play so much better with an egg beater!

 

[BooDestroyer]

A character in a crossover actually playing similary to how he/she does in his/her home series is too much to ask for and asking for the source material to be treated with a certain level of respect shouldn't be a priority?

That's not the same thing as all that other optional bullshit, though.

I thought it was already obvious that Wario in this game was supposed to be more based on his WarioWare portrayal. Or loosely based on it, for that matter.

It's exactly as ShyGuyXXL mentioned, if Mario has fireballs, Wario should, at least, have his shoulder dash, make him feel more like the Wario we know...

Really, I don't think even Nintendo has any idea who or what Wario is anymore.

 

[Glowsquid]

You mean the parts of the game that most people don't actually check out or care about?

Well considering they keep putting these things in and produce large amount of new pose/assets/writing for those things, clearly Nintendo perceive they add some value to the game. Smash Bros makes a big show of being a crossover, moreso than any other fighting game franchise. King of Fighter, for example, is a crossover of SNK but it doesn't have ton of random collectibles that tell you about characters and objects that appear in SNK games, even those that don't appear in KOF, a releese list of every SNK and Neo Geo games... etc.

Like, point is, Smash Bros is a big crossover. Of course, there are going to be concessions and liberties taken for the sake of the gameplay, but that you act like criticizing the crossover aspect is a completely ridiculous thing to do just confuses me.

I've read a few interviews in the past from R&D1 veterans who spoke about Yokoi's role and actions as head of the department. He was a design mentor as much as a hardware man, and I don't just assume he crafted Wario, because I know that was Hiroji Kiyotake's work.
An example of Yokoi's involvement is how he oversaw the transition from Mario Land to Wario Land, which was an independent step for the studio, shifting them out of Miyamoto territory.

And I think the prevailing theme of Nintendo history is more than coincidence with Smash Bros, considering the obscurity of characters like Ice Climbers and countless trophies/stickers etc.

I'm curious where you got that from. Yokoi in his capacity as a producer did overseee games, but from the interviews I read, it seems he mainly concerned himself with minor things like "keep it simple", "don't give Samus a 2nd set of right handed sprites in Metroid nES because we don't have enough memory" and "why does the player characterin Gumshoe look like me".

 

[ShyGuyXXL]

Trophies, stages, music, stickers, masterpieces, etc. are bullshit?

 

[warelander]

That's not the same thing as all that other optional bullshit, though.

I thought it was already obvious that Wario in this game was supposed to be more based on his WarioWare portrayal. Or loosely based on it, for that matter.


Really, I don't think even Nintendo has any idea who or what Wario is anymore.

1) Nobody here has ever even ONCE suggested that the bonus content should be the main focus of the game, literally nobody.

2) The fact that Smash is the only series where all of these Wario problems apply makes it pretty telling who the culprit of said problems is and Ware Wario is nothing like Smash Wario, even in a loose sense.