What characters belong to the Mario Universe ?

[NacklesK]

So, I've always had this question about the Mario universe and the characters that are in it because the Mario games have so many spin-offs that they themselves have spin-offs. I mean, I did a little diagram about the links between the different series and look at it :

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And we know for a fact that WarioWare is in the same universe as the Mario games because of Young Cricket mentioning Mario in the Wario Website :

Though the Rare games is where I draw the line personally, it's too far fetched to think that Conker and Banjo are in the Mario universe. At that point you might as well count Mario & Sonic at the Olympics too.

 

[CM30]

Eh, I feel like Rhythm Heaven and Rare's games are about the same level of connectedness to the Mario universe. A bit too distant for the likes of Mario Wiki, but logically connected.

 

[Care]

Personally, I think Conker's Bad Fur Day should be considered apart of the universe because the idea of a gigantic lump of shit that sings existing in Mario's world is hilarious.

 

[CM30]

Personally, I think Conker's Bad Fur Day should be considered apart of the universe because the idea of a gigantic lump of shit that sings existing in Mario's world is hilarious.

It's certainly wacky enough, I'll say that much

 

[NacklesK]

Eh, I feel like Rhythm Heaven and Rare's games are about the same level of connectedness to the Mario universe. A bit too distant for the likes of Mario Wiki, but logically connected.

My reasoning for counting Rhythm Heaven as canon is that WarioWare is canon and by connection so is RH but I don't consider Diddy Kong Racing to be canon so the connection to the Rare games doesn't matter.

Basically think of it as Mario & Sonic, you wouldn't consider Sonic and Mario to live in the same universe because the games where they feature each other isn't canon. That's the criteria I applied to it.

 

[Care]

My reasoning for counting Rhythm Heaven as canon is that WarioWare is canon and by connection so is RH but I don't consider Diddy Kong Racing to be canon so the connection to the Rare games doesn't matter.

Basically think of it as Mario & Sonic, you wouldn't consider Sonic and Mario to live in the same universe because the games where they feature each other isn't canon. That's the criteria I applied to it.

I think the thing about Diddy Kong Racing is that's where those characters first showed up. It's not a crossover thing because that's literally where they came from.

 

[NacklesK]

I think the thing about Diddy Kong Racing is that's where those characters first showed up. It's not a crossover thing because that's literally where they came from.

Still though, I feel like that's more of a foreshadowing and less of an origin. I doubt they were made specifically for DKR, they were probably made for their game then made it to DKR before their game was out. And even then, it would still not count because then I could argue that the original Smash characters like Galeem are canon to Mario because that was their first appearance.

 

[Care]

Still though, I feel like that's more of a foreshadowing and less of an origin. I doubt they were made specifically for DKR, they were probably made for their game then made it to DKR before their game was out. And even then, it would still not count because then I could argue that the original Smash characters like Galeem are canon to Mario because that was their first appearance.

I don't think the case of Galeem works as an argument here because Super Smash Bros. is its own series. Sure, Mario is there and "Bros." is in the title, but there's a lot of other Nintendo characters. Diddy Kong Racing literally just is Diddy Kong's thing, has his name front and center in the title and a bunch of characters who never got games.

 

[NacklesK]

I don't think the case of Galeem works as an argument here because Super Smash Bros. is its own series. Sure, Mario is there and "Bros." is in the title, but there's a lot of other Nintendo characters. Diddy Kong Racing literally just is Diddy Kong's thing, has his name front and center in the title and a bunch of characters who never got games.

Yeah, but I don't consider Diddy Kong Racing to be canon probably like most people. And there's also the whole "foreshadowing" argument :

Still though, I feel like that's more of a foreshadowing and less of an origin. I doubt they were made specifically for DKR, they were probably made for their game then made it to DKR before their game was out.

 

[Zulie]

My reasoning for counting Rhythm Heaven as canon is that WarioWare is canon and by connection so is RH but I don't consider Diddy Kong Racing to be canon so the connection to the Rare games doesn't matter.

Basically think of it as Mario & Sonic, you wouldn't consider Sonic and Mario to live in the same universe because the games where they feature each other isn't canon. That's the criteria I applied to it.

I wouldn’t really call it the same thing, to be honest. Diddy Kong Racing wasn’t just a crossover, it was the debut of Banjo and Conker, as someone else already pointed out. Plus, Rare included lore in the manual explaining how Diddy knows them and why they’re there. I'd say that’s definitely more meaningful than something like Mario crossing over with Sonic without any context. Heck, I’d even argue that Banjo and Conker’s series are more connected than Rhythm Heaven, since both characters originated in a Mario universe game, making their franchises adjacently related by default. That said, I’d still group all three under the red line, given how self-contained their series feel.

Personally, I’d also include Punch-Out, mainly because of how often Mario characters appeared in the games, sometimes even playing actual roles. I’d put it under the 'Unsure' category at least.

 

[Care]

Don't forget to include Starfy, Wario makes an appearance there

 

[NacklesK]

I wouldn’t really call it the same thing, to be honest. Diddy Kong Racing wasn’t just a crossover, it was the debut of Banjo and Conker, as someone else already pointed out. Plus, Rare included lore in the manual explaining how Diddy knows them and why they’re there. I'd say that’s definitely more meaningful than something like Mario crossing over with Sonic without any context. Heck, I’d even argue that Banjo and Conker’s series are more connected than Rhythm Heaven, since both characters originated in a Mario universe game, making their franchises adjacently related by default. That said, I’d still group all three under the red line, given how self-contained their series feel.

Personally, I’d also include Punch-Out, mainly because of how often Mario characters appeared in the games, sometimes even playing actual roles. I’d put it under the 'Unsure' category at least.

Don't forget to include Starfy, Wario makes an appearance there

Still, I don't really think Diddy Kong Racing would be considered canon as despite not really being a crossover. As for Punch-Out, even Mario characters make appearance in them, it's highly improbable it's canon since they are more cool surprises more than anything. Same goes for Starfy, you wouldn't consider Kirby to canon to Mario because Mario, Luigi, Toad and Wario makes an appearance in Dedede's boss fight in Kirby Superstars.

Admittedly, I didn't put that much thought into the diagram back when I made it so I didn't think to include every game where a Mario character makes a cameo, though if you were to do a "definitive" diagram of every universe the Marioverse may be related to, then you would include all those aforementioned games as Unsure or Probably not canon.

 

[Care]

Still, I don't really think Diddy Kong Racing would be considered canon as despite not really being a crossover. As for Punch-Out, even Mario characters make appearance in them, it's highly improbable it's canon since they are more cool surprises more than anything. Same goes for Starfy, you wouldn't consider Kirby to canon to Mario because Mario, Luigi, Toad and Wario makes an appearance in Dedede's boss fight in Kirby Superstars.

Admittedly, I didn't put that much thought into the diagram back when I made it so I didn't think to include every game where a Mario character makes a cameo, though if you were to do a "definitive" diagram of every universe the Marioverse may be related to, then you would include all those aforementioned games as Unsure or Probably not canon.

I mean, in the case of Punch Out and Starfy, the characters actually play a genuine role in what's happening. In Kirby Super Star, that one is literally just an easter egg and has no weight on the Dedede fight. Not really comparable in my opinion.

 

[NacklesK]

I mean, in the case of Punch Out and Starfy, the characters actually play a genuine role in what's happening. In Kirby Super Star, that one is literally just an easter egg and has no weight on the Dedede fight. Not really comparable in my opinion.

To be fair, I never played Punch-Out or Starfy lol so I just guessed. But like I said, if I were to do "definitive" diagram, I would have included them. Also, isn't like the Donkey Kong fight a bonus non-canon fight, as for the Mario referee.. I don't really know... I guess I would still put it in unsure looking back but it's easier for me to say Rhythm Heaven is canon to WarioWare then to say Punch-Out is canon to Mario.

 

[Care]

I'm not too sure on the canonicity being stated on DK's fight with Little Mac, but for Starfy, Wario appears for all the levels of a stage, helps you progress, and even teaches Starfy a new ability.

 

[NacklesK]

I'm not too sure on the canonicity being stated on DK's fight with Little Mac, but for Starfy, Wario appears for all the levels of a stage, helps you progress, and even teaches Starfy a new ability.

Huh? Seriously, I thought he just showed up as a cameo or something. That's definitely changes up things. That's kinda weird yet interesting that they'd use Wario like that.

 

[Ceruleancast]

I personally always find it hysterical to think about how they're linked because I then think about how you can cross over the most random set of niche or one off characters imaginable from each respective series together, which to me is a good thing. Like Bluster Kong and Salvador Drainotto
or something existing in the same universe as Wario World bosses and so on.