how do you guys feel about Wario taking on a more heroic role

GoblinGreed69

GoblinGreed69

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I despise it because I love Wario because he is fully motivated by self gain, unless they add something in like theyre only helping to try and get on her good side for something or other idk but im not a fan
 

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I think it depends on the context. He's been heroic in some of the Wario Land games, but he's never done anything specificially for anyone else. In Wario Land 3, 4 and Shake It, he was motivated by money and just happened to save some people as a result of getting it.
 
CM30 said:
I think it depends on the context. He's been heroic in some of the Wario Land games, but he's never done anything specificially for anyone else. In Wario Land 3, 4 and Shake It, he was motivated by money and just happened to save some people as a result of getting it.
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yeah but wario land 3 is a good example, in the start the hidden figure went on about how hes in pain and needs help and you can see warios face he just really isnt interested at all; completely apatehtic. its only when the figure mentions money he goes for it, exact same with shake it and wario world

Wario Land 4 is an interesting case because he didnt even know he was doing a good thing at all until the end when he ignored the explanation of what it was he just did
 
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I mean, it's all just a ploy for them to get access to Peach's airship, because the place has treasure. That's as Wario as it gets. The fact they DO find the cure Daisy needs is really incidental, since Wario and Waluigi were only interested in looting the place.
 
Wario Land 4 is interesting indeed because even though he didn't know Shokora got turned into a cat, after they escape the pyramid, Wario laughs with the cat. We don't know what was going through his head when Golden Diva absorbed the cat and maybe rescuing the cat was just his motivation for treasure like with the intro, but I think he at least understood that the cat was trying to guide him. And the fact that he laughs with the cat makes me think maybe he was at least relieved the cat survived or thought of it as his partner in crime or something
 
noobmurderer34 said:
Wario Land 4 is interesting indeed because even though he didn't know Shokora got turned into a cat, after they escape the pyramid, Wario laughs with the cat. We don't know what was going through his head when Golden Diva absorbed the cat and maybe rescuing the cat was just his motivation for treasure like with the intro, but I think he at least understood that the cat was trying to guide him. And the fact that he laughs with the cat makes me think maybe he was at least relieved the cat survived or thought of it as his partner in crime or something
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eh i think youre overthinking it, to me the laugh is like a "holy shit we almost died" laugh of relief, yeah you can make the argument he was glad the cat lived but i dont think hed be too torn up about it if the cat died
 
GoblinGreed69 said:
eh i think youre overthinking it, to me the laugh is like a "holy shit we almost died" laugh of relief, yeah you can make the argument he was glad the cat lived but i dont think hed be too torn up about it if the cat died
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I think the thing about it is that Wario isn't heartless, he's a greedy jerk, but he has a heart of gold to some extent. If that wasn't the case, I doubt he'd have any love for a pet like his hen to a point he would drop his quest for a moment in WL2 just to make sure she was alright.

Money may be his main motivator, but I don't think he's cruel to a point he is uncaring of others if they are in peril... though, he will 100% want a reward for his good deeds once he's done!!
:mkexcellente:
 
Care said:
I think the thing about it is that Wario isn't heartless, he's a greedy jerk, but he has a heart of gold to some extent. If that wasn't the case, I doubt he'd have any love for a pet like his hen to a point he would drop his quest for a moment in WL2 just to make sure she was alright.

Money may be his main motivator, but I don't think he's cruel to a point he is uncaring of others if they are in peril... though, he will 100% want a reward for his good deeds once he's done!!
:mkexcellente:
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his hen was part of his chicken empire, as seen in warios warehouse of nintendo power, im sure he was just being pragmatic about preserving his business, yeah the manual says he loves the hen but i think he loves it in the same sense you would love a diamond chainsaw, its valuable

i think youre giving him too much credit, hes a villain with a greasy black soul and thats why i love him, you can have headcannons and such but saying the arsehole isnt an arsehole is just factually incorrect

im not saying he is 100% heartless, he does care for waluigi, his friends, and such but i think its because theyre useful to him, the second the folks at warioware put their foot down and say theyre not working without pay he would just chuck them out and replace them with scabs
 
GoblinGreed69 said:
his hen was part of his chicken empire, as seen in warios warehouse of nintendo power, im sure he was just being pragmatic about preserving his business, yeah the manual says he loves the hen but i think he loves it in the same sense you would love a diamond chainsaw, its valuable

i think youre giving him too much credit, hes a villain with a greasy black soul and thats why i love him, you can have headcannons and such but saying the arsehole isnt an arsehole is just factually incorrect

im not saying he is 100% heartless, he does care for waluigi, his friends, and such but i think its because theyre useful to him, the second the folks at warioware put their foot down and say theyre not working without pay he would just chuck them out and replace them with scabs
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Now, I never said Wario wasn't an asshole. He definitely is one with the way he operates, I just don't think he's a heartless bastard. Being an asshole and heartless aren't synonymous.

Either way, I think we have vastly differing views of Wario in our head. I suppose that's what make Mario characters interesting, there's a lot you have to infer on them on your own towards their personality. Especially when there's differing sources like Wario's Warehouse, which I haven't looked too much into. My interpretation is a greedy, arrogant asshole with a little bit of a heart and a drive unlike any other, yours is an interpretation of a villain who only lives for money and power. I'll also note to answer the original topic you made, I do not see him as the heroic type at all, only when it's a dire situation or if there's a reward he can reap from it.
 
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It's interesting because I genuinely think, if it ever came down to it, if Wario had to choose between money and his friends, I think he'd VERY reluctantly choose his friends. We don't really see him in those kind of moral situations though, and a lot of the time I feel like he'll try to pull fast ones just because it's convenient or he'll have nothing to lose. Like of course he's gonna throw the princess out of the way and choose the money, and he does the same thing when it's his friends and he tries to escape without paying them like in Gold. But the thing is, he's going to at least TRY to rip them off, and when it doesn't work and they catch him or call him out on it, that's as bad as it gets. It's never serious like "Alright Wario, choose between the money or our friendship"

I think I like it when Wario has flaws and tries to steal from his friends because he's got a bad side and he should show it, it's what he's all about. He's a powerful neutral force driven by greed and being rough complements him very well, and when they make him too soft or don't take risks it's boring. And on the other hand I don't think he should be so cruel to the point where the player feels disgusted or uncomfortable by his actions. Just a little bit more bad is all I'm asking because I feel like they toned him down a bit
 
noobmurderer34 said:
It's interesting because I genuinely think, if it ever came down to it, if Wario had to choose between money and his friends, I think he'd VERY reluctantly choose his friends. We don't really see him in those kind of moral situations though, and a lot of the time I feel like he'll try to pull fast ones just because it's convenient or he'll have nothing to lose. Like of course he's gonna throw the princess out of the way and choose the money, and he does the same thing when it's his friends and he tries to escape without paying them like in Gold. But the thing is, he's going to at least TRY to rip them off, and when it doesn't work and they catch him or call him out on it, that's as bad as it gets. It's never serious like "Alright Wario, choose between the money or our friendship"

I think I like it when Wario has flaws and tries to steal from his friends because he's got a bad side and he should show it, it's what he's all about. He's a powerful neutral force driven by greed and being rough complements him very well, and when they make him too soft or don't take risks it's boring. And on the other hand I don't think he should be so cruel to the point where the player feels disgusted or uncomfortable by his actions. Just a little bit more bad is all I'm asking because I feel like they toned him down a bit
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i strongly disagree with you here big man
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The thing about Wario is that yeah, he is a selfish jerk, but he is a selfish jerk in a cartoony setting that's meant to be fun. His actions are meant to be enjoyable to watch, so of course there are lines with him.

WarioWare tends to show that the most. He'll actively antagonize Mario or fight Syrup, two people he has a grudge against and beat up a rando like Sewer Guru that we aren't meant to care about. He is much softer with his friends though, because there is nothing fun about him scamming them out of their share of the earnings and tossing them out with force. Meanwhile him attempting to scam them, even having a escape rocket prepared, only for that escape to backfire, is a fun bit of toony karma.

With that in mind Wario having things he cares about or people he is nicer towards isn't anything weird. If anything it shows he has a level of dimension to him. He can be nice to Shokora who to him was just some cat and even an ally via being the shopkeeper, while still being in the adventure for money and say, treating Arewo Shitain very roughly with no prior provocation on the latter's part.

Mario Tennis Fever in particular shows that off well. Wario and Waluigi do lead the gang to the cure Daisy needs, but it's all for an easy excuse to get to that place for the treasure hiding there. They do provide the solution for the initial problem, but that's a lucky side-effect of a purely selfish pursuit.
 
i really sincerely disagree
sure, you CAN see him as just a "goofy JERK" in a colourful magical world but i have WAY more fun imagining him in a more gritty or realistic light

can you imagine if Ted Sarandos just ran away with all the money he was supposed to pay to all the Netflix employees, it would be front page of every newspaper, can you imagine if a billionaire CEO burst through Vladmire Putins wall to yell at him because he owed him money then beating the shit out of the guards, can you imagine a fat guy with stubble with a cheap purple suit and cheap cologne blazing down the vegas strip in a clean caddy

that, to me, if infinitely cooler than wario just being a disney channel antagonist and is the kind of vibes i strive in my every day life and is why i choose to walk the path of wario

all the Mario characters are caricatures, right? like Mario is a hero and hes argued as one of the most golden hearted heroes of all time, Wario is a greedy fat selfish bastard, and he is one of the most greedy fat selfish bastards of all time and thats why hes my goat

if you want to see him differently, i dont care at all but i need you to understand hes not just a colourful childrens mascot, hes up there as one of the deepest mario characters with all the lore the manuals, nintendo power, and how he probably talks the most of any mario character in the spinoffs especially in mario and sonic and the tennis series

i could go on and on but i promise this is my last paragraph, but to me wario and waluigi are the extent of real men, real humanity, like mario and friends are all cheerful, bowser is the big villain here to ruin he day but he never goes too far, and wario is just a big fat ugly disgusting man, stronger than mario, more cunning than bowser, reminds me of Clayton from tarzan or like Gaston from beauty and the beast (i know the irony of saying hes not a disney villain and then comparing him to disney villains but shut up, older disney was a bit darker, but i dont mean like breaking bad dark, just a tiny bit darker... just like wario to the rest of the mario universe)
 
Now you got me wondering what the most horrible thing Wario has ever done is, because I feel like they never really cross the line, and I also feel like they toned him down and shifted more heavily towards making him a gag character and more family friendly, so I do agree with you in that sentiment I think he should be a little rougher. Like I said before it's kinda boring if he's too soft, and the way they stopped using him as a main villain means there's less opportunitys for him to do anything really heinous so I think that's part of why people don't like imagining him as too cruel

Comparing current Wario with Bowser, I think neither of them would go too far. But Wario when he was a villian like in SML2? I think... maybe he would??? It's fun to imagine how far he would cross the line, if he'd be worse than Bowser, because I feel like he could be a lot more cruel if they kept him as a villain but we never really got to see them take that direction
 
Wario's never been a darker character. He's alway had goofiness baked into his character. During his conception Kiyotake even compared Mario and Wario to Popeye and Bluto. He's a cartoon character, always has been. The kind who will toss buckets on people's heads for his eeeeevil scheme.

He has a more fleshed out personality than most of the cast, sure, but a lot of that comes from the fact he ISN'T this inhumanly cruel monster. He's a thuggish, greedy treasure hunter, a game company CEO who when at home, is decently chill if you don't stand in the way of his interests and a spiteful Mario rival. He can be all that and even more.

It's no different from how Bowser can try to create a whole new galaxy of his own to rule one day, genuinely trying to kill Mario in the process, only to be his Tennis doubles partner the next day or how Rosalina partakes in the goofiness of series, even at her own expense, despite having a somber backstory. The cast is made to be flexible and function more like old-school cartoon and comics characters, a comparison Miyamoto himself made and Wario follows suit.

I DO think he could stand to get some of his more thuggish traits back. Wario's vices and negative qualities are a important part of who he is and I do think he can sometimes be made too much of a gag character. Move It being the worst example, where he is softened so much his abuse and humiliation doesn't even feel earned.
 
noobmurderer34 said:
Now you got me wondering what the most horrible thing Wario has ever done is, because I feel like they never really cross the line, and I also feel like they toned him down and shifted more heavily towards making him a gag character and more family friendly, so I do agree with you in that sentiment I think he should be a little rougher. Like I said before it's kinda boring if he's too soft, and the way they stopped using him as a main villain means there's less opportunitys for him to do anything really heinous so I think that's part of why people don't like imagining him as too cruel

Comparing current Wario with Bowser, I think neither of them would go too far. But Wario when he was a villian like in SML2? I think... maybe he would??? It's fun to imagine how far he would cross the line, if he'd be worse than Bowser, because I feel like he could be a lot more cruel if they kept him as a villain but we never really got to see them take that direction
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its not what hes done, its what hes capable of, bowser has the strength to kill anyone he wants but he doesnt because he doesnt feel the need, wario definitely would if he wasnt more or less on par with the rest of them strength wise

like everyone in the mario universe are fantasy creatures and wario and waluigi just regularly throw a bombardment of bombs and explosives, clearly with the intent to kill... you dont knock someone out with a bomb

in terms of worst things hes done, you could count when he tried to kill Ness in subspace, but in terms of mario universe a lot of it isnt bad in the grand scheme of mario but its just how you look at it and tbh i dont feel like explaining anymore i feel like youre just taking the piss out of me and it doesnt matter anyways, we have different opinions and thats that
 
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