Puyo Puyo

[puyokid]

I heard about it, incredibly lame and blatant way to just throw away a plotline by saying ''fuck it'' without any resolution, especially with how big of a deal it was to Arle in the Fever trilogy. It's also odd because Amitie's 20th story has her and Arle say that it had been a long time since they have seen each other, which would imply that Arle may have not been in town during that time, considering that Amitie is the only Primp resident that she is ever seen with these days, it also implies that Arle no longer visits the Magic School, which is kind of a sad thought.

You know, it's because of the aforementioned cutscenes in both Ringo and Amitie's stories that I find it hard to tell whether or not Arle's ending in 15th was canon or not. I mean, why would Arle tell the 7ARS trio that she still hasn't found a way back home (though with the likes of Rulue, Schezo, etc. coming to Primp, I'm a little afraid she's decided there's no need to bother anymore) in Ringo's story, yet in Amitie's story, it's implied that they haven't seen each other in a very long time? Where had she been that entire time?

I'm telling you, something about all of this just doesn't add up to me, personally.

A hilariously bad example of that is in Amitie's 20th story, Sig tags along with Amitie and is fairly talkative, but once they meet Arle he suddenly becomes dead silent, save for a single sentence, with neither of the girls acknowledging him much at all, he's totally silent when they meet Witch, after which Ms. Accord comes up as an opponent and Sig actually talks again, but Arle is suddenly gone with no explanation given. It's like the game went out of it's way to ensure that she get's no interactions with any Primp characters (save for that one sentence from Sig, which Arle doesn't even respond to) in this story, it's spectacularly awful.

Honestly, the more I think about the concept of the 'A' Trio, the more I think the whole thing is just a cashgrab attempt on SEGA's part. I mean, as much as I love Arle, Amitie, and Ringo, they don't seem to have any real chemistry, they don't often interact with other characters from eras different from theirs (ex. Arle and Amitie interacting with Risukuma and Maguro). I mean, the latter issue even extends to other characters as well. It's a little sad, honestly.

I don't see why not.

Alright, I'll try it out.

 

[warelander]

You know, it's because of the aforementioned cutscenes in both Ringo and Amitie's stories that I find it hard to tell whether or not Arle's ending in 15th was canon or not. I mean, why would Arle tell the 7ARS trio that she still hasn't found a way back home (though with the likes of Rulue, Schezo, etc. coming to Primp, I'm a little afraid she's decided there's no need to bother anymore) in Ringo's story, yet in Amitie's story, it's implied that they haven't seen each other in a very long time? Where had she been that entire time?

I'm telling you, something about all of this just doesn't add up to me, personally.

Nothing about it adds up, 15th had a simple and yet effective set up where Arle was still looking for a way home, actually asked her Primp pals for help and we even get some insight on what she did while in town, where as with 20th we pretty much have to assume that she's now still somewhere in town, but isolated enough from everyone else that even Amitie hasn't seen her in a while and appearently she just stopped asking others for help on search for a way home, which also makes her look like a complete idiot for the record.

Honestly, the more I think about the concept of the 'A' Trio, the more I think the whole thing is just a cashgrab attempt on SEGA's part. I mean, as much as I love Arle, Amitie, and Ringo, they don't seem to have any real chemistry, they don't often interact with other characters from eras different from theirs (ex. Arle and Amitie interacting with Risukuma and Maguro). I mean, the latter issue even extends to other characters as well. It's a little sad, honestly.

I wouldn't say cashgrab (what kind of financial gain would that give them?) I just don't get the point behind any of this, especially with what I said about Amitie's story, just what do they think do stunts like that add, I straight up don't even understand it.

And yah know I get it, Puyo was always more about the comedy, but I seriously think that the series doesn't give itself enough credit in it's ability to tell storylines and how engaging the characters can be.

Compare that to let's say....the Mario & Luigi series, that series is mostly comedy, but still has a very surprising amount of continuity and even an ongoing storyline with Fawful's character arc of becoming a main villain in his own right and yet every game still stands fine on it's own. Puyo went into a similar direction with the Fever trilogy and then just suddenly stopped and granted, this isn't the first time that Puyo has been afraid to give a storyline a much needed payoff (Doppelganger Arle), but I can't help but feel like even the people behind the series don't realize how well they could do with those kind of things, if they just commited themselves to it, instead of just falling back onto a easy to repeat formula time and time again.

 

[puyokid]

Nothing about it adds up, 15th had a simple and yet effective set up where Arle was still looking for a way home, actually asked her Primp pals for help and we even get some insight on what she did while in town, where as with 20th we pretty much have to assume that she's now still somewhere in town, but isolated enough from everyone else that even Amitie hasn't seen her in a while and apparently she just stopped asking others for help on search for a way home, which also makes her look like a complete idiot for the record.

Personally, I wouldn't really be all that surprised if the (in-universe) reason as to why Arle and Carbuncle seem to have given up on going home is due to the likes of their compatriots from their dimension (Rulue, Schezo, Satan, Suketoudara, Draco, Witch, etc.) coming to Primp/Pwurp. As a result, they probably thought there was no need to continue to find a way back as long people who they personally knew were already migrating to them, rather than the other way around.

However, this bothers me due to how this takes away an opportunity to re-establish Arle's dimension as a major setting in the series. Trust me, you don't know how much I've wanted the casts of Fever 1/2 and PP7 casts to experience the "hardcore" setting of the Madou world. Just to see how their cuteness and whatnot would interact with the Madou-era's "grittiness.

I wouldn't say cashgrab (what kind of financial gain would that give them?) I just don't get the point behind any of this, especially with what I said about Amitie's story, just what do they think do stunts like that add, I straight up don't even understand it.

Well, I guess when I say "cashgrab", I'm just thinking about the 'A' Trio in PP7 and how SEGA seemed to give that game a lot of push towards Japanese schoolkids. What's more, I'm almost sure I've seen something similar to what the 'A' Trio what are doing these days, and it was for financial reasons.

And yah know I get it, Puyo was always more about the comedy, but I seriously think that the series doesn't give itself enough credit in its ability to tell storylines and how engaging the characters can be.

Compare that to let's say....the Mario & Luigi series, that series is mostly comedy, but still has a very surprising amount of continuity and even an ongoing storyline with Fawful's character arc of becoming a main villain in his own right and yet every game still stands fine on it's own. Puyo went into a similar direction with the Fever trilogy and then just suddenly stopped and granted, this isn't the first time that Puyo has been afraid to give a storyline a much needed payoff (Doppelganger Arle), but I can't help but feel like even the people behind the series don't realize how well they could do with those kind of things, if they just committed themselves to it, instead of just falling back onto a easy to repeat formula time and time again.

Something I've (admittedly) preached about the Puyo Puyo series time and time again. I know Puyo Puyo is just a puzzle game, but it has SO much potential be more than what we've currently got, it's not even funny. Heck, if SEGA really tried, they could even make the cast of PP7 have interesting backstories on the Fever-era's level.

Say, do you think I could post our conversation about Puyo being more than it is now on Tumblr?

 

[warelander]

Personally, I wouldn't really be all that surprised if the (in-universe) reason as to why Arle and Carbuncle seem to have given up on going home is due to the likes of their compatriots from their dimension (Rulue, Schezo, Satan, Suketoudara, Draco, Witch, etc.) coming to Primp/Pwurp. As a result, they probably thought there was no need to continue to find a way back as long people who they personally knew were already migrating to them, rather than the other way around.

Which would still be a very shallow reason to just give up if you were to ask me.

Say, do you think I could post our conversation about Puyo being more than it is now on Tumblr?

I'd rather you not, if I were to say anything about this subject on another site then I'd rather start a new post from the ground up, that fully explains my general mindset when it comes to Puyo stories, as well as personal preferences and opinions on past stories and what not, to put some perspective on my thougths, rather then a conversation just being quoted out of context and without giving me a chance to properly establish my stance, because obviously you know my opinions, but few people on Tumblr do.

 

[puyokid]

Which would still be a very shallow reason to just give up if you were to ask me.

Oh, don't get me wrong. Even I'd still be really annoyed at the idea. One of the reasons as to why was even stated in my last post (about Arle's dimension not being a big thing anymore).

I'd rather you not, if I were to say anything about this subject on another site then I'd rather start a new post from the ground up, that fully explains my general mindset when it comes to Puyo stories, as well as personal preferences and opinions on past stories and what not, to put some perspective on my thoughts, rather then a conversation just being quoted out of context and without giving me a chance to properly establish my stance, because obviously you know my opinions, but few people on Tumblr do.

Oh, sorry. I didn't mean our ACTUAL convo that we're having now, as much as I meant an overall post detailing how Puyo Puyo has a surprising amount of potential (for a puzzle game) to have a way deeper story like in Yo~n and/or the Fever duology + 15th Anniversary. Heck, any more deeper and it may as well be Madou Monogatari without the darker elements.

Unless you wanted to do it, in which case, be my guest.

 

[warelander]

If you want to write about it then be my guest, I personally just don't feel up to it and would generally rather move these kinds of discussions into more positive territory again, because I really don't mean or want to just always discuss negative aspects of a franchise that I do sincerely love.

 

[puyokid]

If you want to write about it, then be my guest. I personally just don't feel up to it and would generally rather move these kinds of discussions into more positive territory again, because I really don't mean or want to just always discuss negative aspects of a franchise that I do sincerely love.

Oh, I understand. Also, when I get around to doing this, it's to explain how the series has a LOT of room for improvement on storytelling aspects, which (IMO) is VERY telling for a PUZZLE game, of all things.. I say all of this on a positive note, by the way.

BTW, guess what just came out on the PSN today?: http://puyo.sega.jp/portal/topics/Puyopuyo/20171025_001465/

Honestly, out of every game in the series, I almost thought that Puyo Puyo~n (and Puyo Puyo 7, to an extent) would never get a re-release due to how it’s supposedly looked down upon by the fandom due to Super Attacks making the game trickier (and make a match take WAAAY longer) than it should have been.

I know Super Attacks "pseudo-returned" for Chronicles, but that was mostly for the RPG mode rather the WHOLE game, right?

 

[warelander]

There was also Skill Battle Mode, which was dedicated to the character skill mechanic, but that's abou it.

When it comes to YON it's not so much that the Super Attacks made the game ''tricky'' but rather the fact that the balancing was horrible, with Doppel, Arle and Kikimora having blatantly better Super Attacks the everyone else, who's Specials are either extremely situational (most of them), have a catch to them (Nohoho) or are just plain awful (Archan, Schezo), it's not really all that noticable in Story Mode, but when you play VS or multiplayer it becomes very appearent that some chracters have a blatant advantage.

Still, I do think there is fun to be had with the game, the story mode is actually made a lot more interesting thanks to the Specials making every encounter more unique, playing Endless Mode with Doppel and her stupidly good 30 second barrier is fun in the same way Endless Battle in PP7 with Henshin is fun, it's the first time Puyo really tried to have more of a story and visuals and music are at the top of their game, so I do have a huge spot for YON, despite it's flaws.

On a different note, after countless attempts that never went anywhere, due to a lack of ideas or exhaustion from other things that needed to be done, I finally have the outline for a new fic done and with me having the rest of the week of I'll make damn certain that it will be there before this week is over, because it's about time that I get back to writing.

 

[puyokid]

There was also Skill Battle Mode, which was dedicated to the character skill mechanic, but that's abou it.

Oh, right, thanks. You know, I'm sure this'll sound weird, but the fact that Chronicles brought back ANY kind of feature of Yo~n's kind of...I don't know, warms my heart in a weird way.

When it comes to YON, it's not so much that the Super Attacks made the game ''tricky'' but rather the fact that the balancing was horrible, with Doppel, Arle and Kikimora having blatantly better Super Attacks the everyone else, who's Specials are either extremely situational (most of them), have a catch to them (Nohoho) or are just plain awful (Archan, Schezo), it's not really all that noticeable in Story Mode, but when you play VS or multiplayer it becomes very apparent that some characters have a blatant advantage.

Still, I do think there is fun to be had with the game, the story mode is actually made a lot more interesting thanks to the Specials making every encounter more unique, playing Endless Mode with Doppel and her stupidly good 30 second barrier is fun in the same way Endless Battle in PP7 with Henshin is fun, it's the first time Puyo really tried to have more of a story and visuals and music are at the top of their game, so I do have a huge spot for YON, despite it's flaws.

While I haven't played Puyo Puyo~n (should really get around to it), I've heard how the story is part of what made the Super Attacks so appealing to fans. As you said, the fact that EVERYONE having a unique attack, it felt a bit exciting to progress to the next level. This is especially notable when you compare Yo~n to the last 3 mainline Puyo games and Puyo BOX the following year.

And I'm sure I don't need to go into too much detail on Yo~n's kickass visuals.

On a different note, after countless attempts that never went anywhere, due to a lack of ideas or exhaustion from other things that needed to be done, I finally have the outline for a new fic done and with me having the rest of the week of I'll make damn certain that it will be there before this week is over, because it's about time that I get back to writing.

Speaking of which, I've recently made an account on FanFiction.net myself. I probably won't be there often, but give me a hit up sometime, huh?

BTW, if you don't mind me asking, what's your next fic about?

 

[warelander]

Will do, though finding you there will be a bit of a challenge.

As for the fic, well, after complaining enough about how Arle was handled in Sig's Secret I figured I'd make an epilogue that actually gives Arle some time to actually show her own thoughts on what happened and has her a bit shaken when realizing how serious the sutuation really was. Purely friendship based, it's just something I wanted to do, since her lack of any investment in anything that's not Amitie in that story is still one of my biggest disappointments in all of Puyo.

 

[puyokid]

Will do, though finding you there will be a bit of a challenge.

Sorry, I forgot to mention my username is supergamehero, so there you go.

As for the fic, well, after complaining enough about how Arle was handled in Sig's Secret I figured I'd make an epilogue that actually gives Arle some time to actually show her own thoughts on what happened and has her a bit shaken when realizing how serious the situation really was. Purely friendship based, it's just something I wanted to do, since her lack of any investment in anything that's not Amitie in that story is still one of my biggest disappointments in all of Puyo.

Out of curiosity, I don't suppose your fic will also feature Ringo, will it? You don't have to add her if you don't want to, and I know that it can easily be argued that Ringo doesn't necessarily have the "deep" bond with Sig that Amitie and Arle share with him, but I personally found it a bit..."uncharacteristic" how Ringo didn't even at least ASK Amitie (who knows Sig WAY better than Ringo or even admittedly Arle) if things were alright with Sig.

Like, I personally can't imagine her being SO detached from Sig that the notion that something seemed off about him never once crossed her mind.

 

[warelander]

Sorry, she ain't much of a factor here and what you are describing here is a general problem with her and Arle in the LN, even if you ignore any sort of past history either of them had with Sig it still would be OOC for them to be so passive when things are clearly going wrong, because the story has so little regard for them that they are really only there to babysit Amitie, never even getting any sort direct interaction with Sig, which makes them almost no factor in the main conflict of the story.

To give some mild credit; since I'm writing something based off the LN I obviously had to read it again for reference and details and I'll give it that much : during the scene when Feli (in a typically cryptic way) reveals that there is some danger that has befallen Sig Arle and Ringo are actually implied to look distressed over it and Arle even concludes that Sig must have quit and run off so that he won't trouble everyone else (which turns out to be enitrely correct).

It doesn't amount to or change anything, it doesn't make up for the previous chapters, their thoughts on it are never really revealed, it's never referenced again, they are still written as if they are in it only for Amitie and since they never interact with him they remain extremely distant and detached from him, but it's a glimmer of something and I'll give a compliment when I can, because the Light Novels in general have already struck out with me big time as is.


Edit: AAAAAAAND it's up.

 

[puyokid]

Hello! So I just wanted to tell you (though I'm sure you must be aware of this), FlareHabanero and Schezoroark (from Tumblr) have been working together for the last few months on a little side project.

...And here are the result(s):









That's right, we're FINALLY getting translations for the entirety of Puyo Puyo!! 20th Anniversary! Honestly, I didn't think this was ever going to happen due to the combination of the interest in translating Puyo stuff being pretty low and the original team working on this very project lost a lot of their resources that would have helped make the original attempt go by relatively smoother.

The only thing I've been meaning to ask Flare is...well, I know I'm going to sound picky for saying it, but the font used for character names...I kind of wish they used the font seen in 15th. That's just my opinion, and it's not even a huge criticism. I'm way too excited that they've gotten started on this to even be bothered by anything, really.

 

[warelander]

Ah yeah, I do know that and have seen Flare's posts and shitposts on Twitter, in regards to the project for a while, it's good news that they are far enough with it to start with the videos.

Also, you may have missed it, since I only included it in a edit, but the fic I wrote is up, you don't have to look into it if you don't want of course, I'd just like some feedback.

 

[puyokid]

Ah yeah, I do know that and have seen Flare's posts and shitposts on Twitter, in regards to the project for a while, it's good news that they are far enough with it to start with the videos.

Personally, I hope they decide to take liberties with the dialogue like SEGA did with the English localization of Puyo Tetris.

Also, you may have missed it, since I only included it in a edit, but the fic I wrote is up, you don't have to look into it if you don't want of course, I'd just like some feedback.

Oh, I saw it in your previous edited post. That being said, it's written very accurately in my opinion. While I'm a little sad that Ringo wasn't involved in the conversation with Sig and Arle, I do understand why you did what you did. Again, I do appreciate your fic for addressing THAT issue in "Sig's Secret".

 

[warelander]

Oh really? I thought you didn't notice, since you didn't say anything at all.

As for Ringo I did consider adding her at one point, but wasn't really sure how to, it doesn't help that I'm not sure on how to write in that situation, her interactions with Sig in canon don't really give me much to with either, so rather then to half ass anything I bit the bullet and left her out.

 

[puyokid]

Oh really? I thought you didn't notice, since you didn't say anything at all.

Sorry, swamped with school stuff. Even now, for that matter...

As for Ringo I did consider adding her at one point, but wasn't really sure how to, it doesn't help that I'm not sure on how to write in that situation, her interactions with Sig in canon don't really give me much to with either, so rather than to half ass anything I bit the bullet and left her out.

Well, while it's shown that Ringo and Sig ARE friends (despite their limited interaction), I DO see why you (for the most part) excluded Ringo from the "main focus" of your fic.

Say, if you don't mind, I'd like to ask you something. Do you think there's ever going to be a time where Schezo has a complete meltdown over his Butt Monkey status, and everyone (Arle, Rulue, and Satan included) genuinely fear him? Personally, after seeing (and UNDERSTANDING due to English subs) what he puts up with in 20th, I'm hoping it happens one day.

 

[warelander]

While never to the point of a meltdown Schezo back in the Compile days used to lash out more aggressively when he had enough of Arle's insults and mockery, SUN being a good example of that, since Arle in her version of that cutscene even seems to realize that she might be in trouble now.

15th did play with the idea of Schezo getting sick of all the mockery he recieves, though it was more in a way of him getting desperate to get rid of the pervert label, to a point where his voice legitimately makes him sound like he's on the verge of just bursting out in tears when he botches the wish (watch that cutscene in a version with voice acting, AKA anything but the DS version, and you'll see). Outside of that he has become somewhat more resigned to his position in the cast or at least his reactions to what keeps happening to him aren't as violent or furious anymore, which I actually don't mind.

I said it before and I will say it again, what I want for Schezo going forward is for him to distance himself from Arle and his routine with her and star in his own adventures ala' ARS and Tower of the Magician, that treat him as more then just a joke, especially if Witch is involved, since while she does heckle him as well, it has been shown that she likes and appreciates him on a level that nobody else does.

 

[puyokid]

While never to the point of a meltdown, Schezo back in the Compile days used to lash out more aggressively when he had enough of Arle's insults and mockery, SUN being a good example of that, since Arle in her version of that cutscene even seems to realize that she might be in trouble now.

Oh, yeah. I remember seeing that actually. BTW, I should mention that SUN wasn't the only occasion of something like this happening in Compile's games. There was also Arle and Schezo's interaction in the PlayStation(?) version of Tsu. Heck, I almost wish both of those encounters went more in-depth with those scenes.

Still, I feel that it's only fair to mention that I found those scenes just a bit underwhelming, if only because those games had the cast in their "chibi" looks that they were fairly famous for in the early/mid 90's. Schezo losing his cool and running in swinging at Arle just didn't have that intimidating feel due to the chibi look, you know?

15th did play with the idea of Schezo getting sick of all the mockery he receives, though it was more in a way of him getting desperate to get rid of the pervert label, to a point where his voice legitimately makes him sound like he's on the verge of just bursting out in tears when he botches the wish (watch that cutscene in a version with voice acting, AKA anything but the DS version, and you'll see). Outside of that he has become somewhat more resigned to his position in the cast or at least his reactions to what keeps happening to him aren't as violent or furious anymore, which I actually don't mind.

You know, I might just take you up on the suggestion, as I've never seen ANY cutscenes from 15th with audio in them. To be fair, the DS version IS the only one with a working English patch (at least, to my knowledge), so...

I said it before and I will say it again, what I want for Schezo going forward is for him to distance himself from Arle and his routine with her and star in his own adventures ala' ARS and Tower of the Magician, that treat him as more than just a joke, especially if Witch is involved, since while she does heckle him as well, it has been shown that she likes and appreciates him on a level that nobody else does.

OK, I wouldn't want anything more than this. Seriously, you don't know tired I am at this point of Schezo's "speech impediment shtick" with Arle. For goodness' sake, Schezo and Arle themselves are even aware of how monotonous that gag is becoming in recent games.

BTW, I should mention that Compile themselves even seemed to heavily (and I mean, heavily) hint at Witch developing genuine feelings for Schezo following the events of TotM. Actually, it almost seemed like Compile tried to do a whole "Betty and Veronica" thing with Witch and Arle in terms of who had more of a relationship with Schezo in the mid 90's. These days, SEGA seems to (on VERY rare occasions, I might add) pair Schezo and Arle for...whatever reason.

You know, I have to say...your idea of Schezo starring in his own adventures, combined with the overall concept of 20th Anniversary, where the majority of the cast's stories were (for the most part) self-contained narratives you'd find in a slice-of-life anime, have given me an idea. What if everyone starred in their own adventures, as in far from their comfort zone, so to speak. Though, I'd be a bit hard-pressed to wonder how it would work for characters like Tarutaru, Ms. Accord, Maguro, etc.

 

[warelander]

Still, I feel that it's only fair to mention that I found those scenes just a bit underwhelming, if only because those games had the cast in their "chibi" looks that they were fairly famous for in the early/mid 90's. Schezo losing his cool and running in swinging at Arle just didn't have that intimidating feel due to the chibi look, you know?

Fair enough.

You know, I might just take you up on the suggestion, as I've never seen ANY cutscenes from 15th with audio in them. To be fair, the DS version IS the only one with a working English patch (at least, to my knowledge), so...

Here's the cutscene in question (20:50) :

Like seriously, I can't recall any other time where Schezo has ever sounded this upset.

Actually, it almost seemed like Compile tried to do a whole "Betty and Veronica" thing with Witch and Arle in terms of who had more of a relationship with Schezo in the mid 90's These days, SEGA seems to (on VERY rare occasions, I might add) pair Schezo and Arle for...whatever reason.

Could you please go into more detail about what you mean with that?

You know, I have to say...your idea of Schezo starring in his own adventures, combined with the overall concept of 20th Anniversary, where the majority of the cast's stories were (for the most part) self-contained narratives you'd find in a slice-of-life anime, have given me an idea. What if everyone starred in their own adventures, as in far from their comfort zone, so to speak. Though, I'd be a bit hard-pressed to wonder how it would work for characters like Tarutaru, Ms. Accord, Maguro, etc.

So basically bigger and more adventerous stories for everyone, rather then the more mundane plots of 20th? I'd be down with that.