Puyo Puyo

warelander

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That's the current speculation, this is a western stream and May isn't ecxatly far off, so I have high doubts that it would be a brand new game, given that it would have only a month of marketing and time to build interest if it was.

We don't know anything for sure, but I just can't see it be a new game entirely.
 

warelander

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I'm very optimistic that they do, we had 15th and 20th Anniversay and Chronicle was very much 25th Anniversary, just replace the the story campaigns for every single character, with one big RPG mode instead.

Not to mention 30 is a strong Anniversary to celebrate, I fully expect that to be the next big title.
 

puyokid

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Honestly, I still don't know if it's a good idea to localize something like Puyo eSports for the West when that's focused more on competitive Puyo, and the West was more in-tuned to Tetris than Puyo in Puyo Tetris. At least Japan can get away with a game like that since they're WAY more used to the series (in its true form) than we are over here.
 

warelander

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My biggest point with eSports being localized is that it is extremely unlikely to do much for the series' future in the west.

The game is so obviously just a tool for convenient competetive play that anyone who's trying to get into the series would be better off with and likely go with Puyo Puyo Tetris instead, since it not only offers more bang for their buck, but it's also less intimidating then a game that's openly geared towards pros.

The competetive scene would like it and the scene is dedicated and undeniably there, but it's a niche within a franchise that's already considered niche in the west.

There's also how it's just TSU and Fever rules and nothing else, no additional playstyles, no story in any form and the most limited and cheap presentation to date.

I can't see it do anything bad for Puyo's western future, even if it really is the localized game we are expecting and doesn't do well, because it's a blatant budget title, but it just would be a disappointing game to have as one of the series' sparse western releases.
 

Shirren

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I just went to read the newest translated chapter in Precise Museum that featured Rulue, and it was a huge disapointment.

It's just Rulue and Schezo, being... Rulue and Schezo. That's it. There are in a puyo battle and apparently Arle immediately assumes the worst, simply
because other people problems and battles don't matter, and Arle can't deal with conflict anymore. I mean seriously, everytime she has to deal with something she acts all put out at best.

It seems that Arle does not talk about Rulue or any of her old friends, if you can call them friends. Arle and Rulue aren't freinds anymore now that she's got Amitie and Ringo, because Arle actually waits to the last minute to tell anyone about Rulue. In *every* description of Rulue is Amitie's novels, is "someone who is beautiful, but very scary when they are angry" and generally freaks out at Rulue's presence everytime Rulue does anything.
Arle knew she was going to have to get Rulue involved at some point and Rulue was the closet thing Arle actually *has* to a friend, and it's sounds like it's the very first time she brought Rulue up. What even worse is that Amitie and Ringo met Rulue in Puyo 7 (unless you count 15th).

I really want to like Amitie, but Amitie's adventure to be a great sorceress does not seem to require an inquisitive nature or any self-reflection on her part. I know Primp Town is a softer and more isolated than Madou, but it's not like there is a certain someone who can explain what's actually going on and how the people from Madou work, *cough* Arle *cough*.

I get that a lot of people play Puyo for the sake of gameplay and don't want a story, I get it. But when I read a comic book. novel or watch a TV show about a video game, I kind of want to see the characters expanded on. I watched a lot of video game stuff when I was a kid and seeing one of my favorite video game characters doing something interesting was always a treat.

When I actually started reading the Ally novel, I thought Oroborous was going to be a good villian and I was going to get a story similar to how Bowletta and Fawful invaded the Mushroom Kingdom and how Mario and Luigi teamed up with Bowser. It's played off as serious, but it seems like Yoggus from Madou Saturn, all we get are the same lame jokes they told over and over again.
 

warelander

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It's just Rulue and Schezo, being... Rulue and Schezo. That's it. There are in a puyo battle and apparently Arle immediately assumes the worst, simply
because other people problems and battles don't matter, and Arle can't deal with conflict anymore. I mean seriously, everytime she has to deal with something she acts all put out at best.

It seems that Arle does not talk about Rulue or any of her old friends, if you can call them friends. Arle and Rulue aren't freinds anymore now that she's got Amitie and Ringo, because Arle actually waits to the last minute to tell anyone about Rulue. In *every* description of Rulue is Amitie's novels, is "someone who is beautiful, but very scary when they are angry" and generally freaks out at Rulue's presence everytime Rulue does anything.
Arle knew she was going to have to get Rulue involved at some point and Rulue was the closet thing Arle actually *has* to a friend, and it's sounds like it's the very first time she brought Rulue up. What even worse is that Amitie and Ringo met Rulue in Puyo 7 (unless you count 15th).
That's a general problem with the Light Novels, they way they are written leaves Arle and Ringo as little more then Amitie's support squad, with most of their relationships with the rest of the cast not really getting much attention and them having little actual imput in a number of situations. The only times Arle really does much of note are when she's against Satan and Schezo (the later of which for the record being deserving of all the shade she throws at him, not sure why I used to be such a Schezo defender for a while). Similar things can be said about much of the cast.

The most disappointing example to me is still Sig's Secret. They actually give some heavy indications that Sig is uncomfortable and even scared of the idea that his anomalies could get worse and that's good, it's great! It shows that he's nowhere as apathatic as he likes to act he is, it's honest to god exploration of his character.

It just never amounts to much, because we get to see next to nothing of his own struggle with his demon site overcoming him. He never get's the proper spotlight, Klug and Raffine don't do much, Rider is completely absent and Arle and Ringo aren't allowed to even say a word to him, so we don't see it from anyone else's perspective either. Lemres is the only one who's allowed to get a little more involved and that's merely because the plot literally wouldn't work otherwise.

Sig's own struggles, character and how what happens to him affects any of his friends not named Amitie never get delved into, because the Light Novel doesn't care about it. The concept of Sig's demon heritage overpowering him is good and it did have that one good moment, but after that he just became a plot device for Amitie to chase and that's lame beyond believe.
 

Shirren

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What's even worse in Ally's novel, Schezo and Rulue don't even do anything. They are in the middle of a Puyo match, the 'A' group interrupts, the both get buried in Puyo, then Rulue gets mad at Ally over Satan, then Schezo says he's not in love with Arle, just her power, then the 'A' group leaves. At least in Everyone's Dreams Rulue contributes to the plot, and in Space Park, Rulue and Amitie actually have dialogue (and Rulue helps A team against Satan and Ecolo in the finale). Here they just show that Rulue and Schezo exist.
 

warelander

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It's lame, but that's how it's been with every character so far, Ecolo is the only one with any promise to even show up again at all.

I find Rider getting left out of Sig's Secret worse, I guess they couldn't find a way to keep her in the background like Raffine and Klug or morph her into a complete drone like Arle and Ringo. After all, only Amitie is allowed to care whether Sig lives or dies, Lemres only got a pass for plot reasons.

Sig's Secret in general is an even bigger disappointment to me then the other Light Novels, because it touches and semi-focuses on a neglected plot point, only to do nothing with it.
 

puyokid

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Honestly, it really worries me how stagnant this series is becoming with its storytelling. Honestly, part of the reason I play Puyo is for the story. It keeps me invested in the cast, so to speak. But the formulaic stuff is just SO old.

Heck, this is even why I also don't want eSports to be what they localize next, as part of what got people into Puyo Tetris was its story.

As for the LNs, Rulue and Schezo basically doing the exact same song and dance they do... I just... does SEGA even care at this point?
 

Shirren

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That's even worse is that Rulue was essentially *forced* into being an antagonist in PPT, and then once you fought her, she disappears. The really bad part of this is, PPT (and Sonic Mania) really extended the awareness of Puyo and Madou Monogatari. This is going to give a lot of people bad impressions because of the characters.

What really sticks out to me is the fact that Arle, while a decent enough character, is a failure as a JRPG protagonist. I know Madou Monogatari is supposed to not rely on cliches and tropes, which it does very well. Madou RPGs are for the most part a single character RPGs, but put Arle in a "group" setting, like say Madou Saturn and she falls flat on her face. Arle is an adorably cute girl with a yellow pikachu mascot, but thats all she's got going for her. She is introverted, reactive (as in she waits for things to happen and just react to them), she acts exasperated when having to deal with conflict, she treats everyone she comes across like a chore, Rulue is the only person that even wanted to have anything to do with Arle prior to fever (and Rulue had to initiate the friendship), Arle comes off as kind of a hypocrite in Saturn, when she essential gave main character status to Rulue and just simply responds to everything Rulue does with snark (because admittedly none of the Madou characters really help the plot), the way she accuses Rulue in 15th of being a troublemaker makes me want to slap her, because of all the trouble Arle goes through to get back home, you think the closest thing to a best friend would be glad to see her, but no I guess since we have Amitie and Ringo we don't need Arle anymore (oh and as much as I despise Raffina, she is generally concerned with Arle's well being as well as Lidelle's, and Arle aslo likes to lump Rulue together with other people she has negative encounters with).

Arle in general is someone who looks cute with her cuddly pet sidekick, but when she loses him in Yon, she kind of loses her shit on everyone because her only friend is now gone and she has no one, and it shows. It kind of makes the point that Arle treats dealing with people like a chore and is only interested in studying and playing with Carbuncle. Just to further the point to it, Schezo has a lot of the same traits Arle does, with his introverted loner mentality and obsession with getting more powerful. This doesn't make Arle a bad or unlikable character, she simply isn't "Main Character" material. (That said, I think young Arle from Kindergarden is adorable).

Amitie carries much better weight as a main character, because she interacts with everyone in Primp Town so much better. Her characters traits are much more endearing even when she is naive or clumsy, because she acts like a human being instead of a plot device (even though Primp Town is more or less a school setting with the usual archetypes). While we are on that topic, Sig is a good example of making an introverted character likable.
 
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warelander

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Rulue getting grouped with Schezo and Satan can likely be attributed to them (almost) always being the final three opponents in the pre-Fever Puyo games, probably helped by the fact that limited screentime and characterization for everyone, left Rulue as little more then a antagonostic presence in the original Arcade games, TSU, SUN and Minna/Puyo Pop.

Not saying that they aren't ignoring any friendship that used to be between Arle and Rulue, because they really do and it especially stands out when they go and suddenly make Schezo open to joining Arle in her escapades on a regular basis, when previously you would have to practically beat him to get him to do that.

I never took Arle as a introvert of any sort, it is noticable that she didn't really have any fulltime friends during the Compile days, but she was more the one sane (wo)man foil to a cast of very exaggerated personalities, then anything else.

This especially shows when you get to the Fever era, because Arle is mentioned to have frequently visited Accord's class in both Fever 2 and 15th and it especially shows in the latter. She's far more aquainted with the townsfolk, shows up together with Amitie and Sig during the very first cutscene, even Klug and Raffine are fairly friendly with her and the game even outright refers to the Primp Students as her new friends several times.

It's gotten to the point where Arle actively decided to wish for a way to travel between her world and Primp, since she had grown to love the town and it's people so much.

This has been downplayed in post-15th, since that game brought back the Compile cast and thus the opportunity to spend her screentime with rehashing old and tired running gags, but it still comes up here and there, like a PPT promotional comic, that has her hang and play with Amitie, Ringo, Sig and Raffine.
 

Shirren

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The other thing that concerns me is that the fanbase kind of grades Rulue on a completely different scale than other characters. A lot of things in Madou are kind of dark and violent, and then you have the fact Arle is a prodigy Chosen One mage and she gets to snark and be a smart ass to everyone and everyone thinks its funny, and then you have Rulue, who is a normal woman with no magic, and outside of having the fortune to be born into wealth, and yet when she asserts herself she's seen as the selfish brat. Why? All the other characters with their exaggerated personalties can come off as violent, it's seen as funny. Rulue's entire stick is that she is trying to be "normal" i.e. get married etc. and she gets just as upset when her stick is upset like everyone elses. To be fair Rulue makes a point never go kill anyone even Count, which makes her the most moral person in the entire Madou series, and to be honest if Rulue were nice to everyone without any reason she would seem out of place (I have nothing against Rulue being nice). There is just this massive double standard that Rulue is labeled as an entitled rich girl and everything I've seen proves to me she more than earned what she has, because she never once uses her money or her family to solve her problems.

I'm reminded of the Doc Savage comics from 1930. Doc Savage defeats his opponents by capturing them and taking them to his Crime College to be better citizens by brainwashing them. This is something that would be unacceptable today; but if you consider the intended audience and put yourself in the mindset of a 1930s person, it kind of makes sense. By the same token, I see Rulue as a Madou Monogatari character, and you need to judge her as a Madou Monogatari character.

The only sane (wo)man usually works because all the characters present give the progatonist something to do. Like do quests for money and experience, or extra heart containers, and make the protagonist more powerful. I mean Link and Phoenix Wright make decent OSMs because they actually care about the people they work with. Arle is just like acts like its a chore. It doesn't make her a hateable person or anything, its the fact the Link and Phoenix actually go out to work and thus interact and become better while Arle only goes out when she needs to feed Carbuncle.
 
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warelander

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I never hear anyone talk about Rulue that way, it's Satan who people tend to be far more iffy on. The worst I ever see in regards to Rulue is people expressing a desire to see her crush on Satan toned down, in favor of showing other parts of her character more (something I can side with) or simple indifference since Rulue's parts in PPT didn't leave much of any impression on them.

Both reasons play well into why I wish that everyone getting their own story campaigns like in 15th and 20th would bceome the new norm, since it gives the whole cast a far better chance to present themselves and to actually do something.
 

Shirren

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Well, there are quite a few people in the English Puyo Discord, as well as this guy, that spend quite a long time exaggerating her perceived negative qualities. I don't want to rehash any old statements in this forum, but I am glad that there are people that don't go out of their way to hate on her.

My biggest concern isn't really that Puyo Puyo doesn't have an involved story. My biggest concern is when they do have an attempt to tell a story, they don't do a really god job of it. Take Super Mario RPG for example. Original characters, enemies teaming up to fight a common foe that threatens the world. Similar faces in foreign places, and stories and personalties of characters expanded upon. Take Yoggus from Madou Saturn for example. Yoggus and Lagnus where supposed to be traditional JRPG final boss/hero, in an RPG that defies JRPG tropes, Yoggus is one of the few enemies that can actually be healed(absorbs) elemental attacks, in a game where elemental resistance isn't supposed to be a thing. It's show that Schezo the Dark Magician being unable to do anything about a Yog because all his attacks are Dark type, also this is the first RPG that takes place in the post Ragnarok era, and Yoggus is the first person to invade the now (supposedly) peaceful world. That's the kind of story they need to tell. PPT could have had that kind of potential but they wasted it.
 
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warelander

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Ah, I was never on the Discord so I wouldn't know, sucks, but there's always going to be people who are like that towards any character, it's best to just pay them no mind.

Reminds me of how bad I feel over my excessive complaining about some things regarding Amitie a year or so ago. That was largely the result of frustrations caused by external factors and I'm neither as cynical as I seemed, nor do i dislike Amitie, not even close.

I will always chamption Fever 2 as being legit solid in terms of story and world building, but to me it's the character writing that matters the most. A meh story is easy for me to brush off if the cast is handles well, it's a big reason why I give so much credit to characters like Ex and Rafisol, PPT and Chronicle have meh plots, but the two are able to still be interesting and extremely sympathetic regardless.

And that is cute indeed, speaking of cute:

MahOT3Idon'tevenhaveanywordssogood
 

Shirren

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I personally think when I play an RPG, the characters are always going to be the most important elements for me. Because that's 90% of the experience. I don't think I would be playing Puyo if there were no characters.
 

warelander

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I love puzzle games in general, so I'd still be on board with Puyo Puyo either way, but it's the full package that really sold me on the series as much as it did and said package of course, includes the characters.
 
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