Why don't we get Mario games like Sunshine anymore?

Mario123311

Mario123311

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I think most of you know how during the Wii U cycle especially Mario hasn't shown much creativity as he used to, Mostly with the over abundance of NSMB titles and reused assets. It almost scares me as it feels like Nintendo are afraid to take a different approach. Why? Let's look back to 2002, When Super Mario Sunshine was released.

Compared to other Mario games, this one really did stray away with some different approaches. The familiar Goombas and Koopas weren't there except for some entirely new or similar enemies, The setting was vastly different as opposed to the usual "Grass, Snow, Desert, Lava" setting, and it was the first Mario game to have full on voice acting. ((Mario gained some new, small little phrases but never really spoke dialogue directly except for a few casual one liners here and there.)) But Sunshine sadly was contested for some reason from what I hear over the Internet. Not saying it's as reviled as Sonic 06 or Bubsy 3D but it was something so many people were devided on. Most of the criticism being on the elements I mentioned above. This was promptly what led to the creation of what we know as New Super Mario Bros. which is a great game, no objections. After the success of Mario Galaxy though with the return of many classic elements such as world themes and going back to basic grunts instead of voice acting ((As well as NSMB Wii doing very well)) it seems like they are possibly afraid and don't know what fans want? Like any character I guess you can say: There are some people who want the character to stay in his 2D roots, [Certain Sonic fans are especially notorious for this] while another side wants the series to advance and develop while going in the 3D direction.

So I do ask, Why haven't we gotten a Mario game with the creativity as Mario Sunshine again? They have shown a bit of it in Galaxy 1 & 2, 3D Land and World... But with how the Wii U has handled I am worried... Will we ever see Mario take a new direction again? I hate when people compare this series to copy/paste franchises like Call of Duty or Madden/Whatever, Because there are so many other games that show much more than being a simple NSMB type game, Sadly this type of formula seems to be bleeding into sub-series' as well like Paper Mario with Sticker Star, which was HEAVILY contested.

And I really can't afford to lose my last gaming hero after Pac-Man, Mega Man and Sonic: All 3 of which were killed right in front of my own very eyes.
 
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I'd say there's more to creativity than simply having a different overall theme and aesthetic. I think a lot of people disliked Super Mario Sunshine because it felt like a gimmicky Super Mario 64 not because the setting was too different. I don't think having a setting that is too different is really beneficial since the setting doesn't impact the gameplay too much unless it's like Galaxy where the gameplay is based off of it. Having Strolling Stus instead of Goombas was different but it didn't really impact the game among other different enemies.

When the first NSMB game came out I thought it was fair since it had been a long time since a non-remake traditional Mario game had come out. It sold well and had continued to sell well so I think that's why Nintendo has stuck with it. There is not much incentive to stop so as stale as they are I think there's good reasoning for them to keep pumping them out.

For the Wii U, I'd say 3D World was quite creative in terms of gameplay. Although it was essentially an enhanced 3D Land I don't think that should take away from the creativity in the levels that hasn't been seen prior to these two games. I think with the Wii U's poor performance I don't think there is much incentive to really go all out in terms of making something totally innovative.

I'd say we have seen good creativity in the Mario games since Super Mario Sunshine. Just because we see Goombas doesn't mean Nintendo isn't trying new things. Sticker Star and Color Splash on the other hand...
 
I know, but I was trying to give basic examples as best I could about how "different" it was. And it still boggles me considering how NSMB 2 & U as well as Sticker Star and Color Splash just feel... Uninspired.
 
Hm, yeah. I doubt we'll see a true 3D Mario platformer once again. It's a shame, but logical, as the 2.5d and 3d with 2d physics sell better.
It's no problem for me yet, though, as I still haven't 100%'ed Super Mario Galaxy, haven't beaten Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine, and haven't even ever played Super Mario Galaxy 2, so I'll be good for a while still.
 
The reason we don't get games like Super Mario Sunshine is because of the ¨New¨ Super Mario Bros. games.
Just look at this list:

  • New Super Mario Bros.
  • New Super Mario Bros. Wii
  • New Super Mario Bros. 2
  • New Super Mario Bros. U
  • New Super Luigi U
Very creative, isn't it?
 
I actually didnt like the fact that SMS missed out on the "Grass, Snow, Desert, Lava" levels. The game kinda felt lacking to me in that way. Its why I like SM64 more than SMS, actually.

Not that I dont like SMS, I thought it was great. But I kinda wished the whole game wasnt based on a beachy theme.

And NSMB games are multiplayer, right? People may not care about the sigle player games from Nintendo, anymore. Nintendo may be going into being a party game developer entirely.
I mean, the Wii kinda seemed to use that as its entire selling point. Hopefully that means they dont have to leave their regular games behind forever.

Wonder if LoZ will ever take this turn? We did get another multiplayer LoZ game with Triforce Heroes.
 
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One thing my friend pointed out to me about Sunshine is that while FLUDD is a fun gimmick that allows them to be pretty creative with the level design, one problem with the level design is that a large part of the game involves bodies of water, and therefore swimming. However, the swimming controls are still basically the same as in 64 (which is alright in that regard, but far from perfect), and aren't as good as they should be in a game that involves so much swimming. Heck, it would make a lot of sense for FLUDD to aid in swimming, but it really doesn't do much in that regard.
 
King Hehehe said:
One thing my friend pointed out to me about Sunshine is that while FLUDD is a fun gimmick that allows them to be pretty creative with the level design, one problem with the level design is that a large part of the game involves bodies of water, and therefore swimming. However, the swimming controls are still basically the same as in 64 (which is alright in that regard, but far from perfect), and aren't as good as they should be in a game that involves so much swimming. Heck, it would make a lot of sense for FLUDD to aid in swimming, but it really doesn't do much in that regard.
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I think there are at least 2 levels where you are deep underwater where FLUDD does actually help with swimming somewhat: As in your hover nozzle is turned into a jetpack of sorts. It's only used in the Red Coin Fish and Eel Dentist missions as far as I remember though.

IMO, Pac-Man World 2 had perfect swimming controls but that's just me. ((Too bad it was underutilized.))
 
Glowsquid said:
https://dromble.wordpress.com/2013/09/21/nintendos-frustrations-with-3d-mario/
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Of course, there's a very simple solution here; make both 2D and 3D Mario games, and make them both GOOD.

3D Mario game can be more open ended and exploration based, 2D Mario more action and platforming based.

Nintendo's problem is that they desperately try and dumb down 3D Mario to appeal to people who don't give a toss about it and simply don't enjoy that type of game. And then put as little effort as possible into 2D Mario games, by using rehashed themes, ideas, characters, items, etc. If 2D Mario was Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze caliber, and 3D Mario was more akin to Banjo-Tooie, everyone would win.

Sean Malstrom says a lot about this one.
 
“Iwata blamed falling games sales on overly complex titles that are too tough for newcomers and casual gamers. They’re also bad for the business, [Iwata] added – gamers can spend months playing them, and while they’re doing so, they’re not buying other titles. Those who find they can’t win get so fed up with the experience, they don’t feel inclined to buy an alternative title. Nintendo’s message to the industry seems to be: forget about discs jam packed with ever more complex levels and involving gameplay, and give the punters something they can complete quicky – and get out to buy more of the stuff. Iwata wants Nintendo to focus on games that have a broader appeal.”
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Nintendo went back to the drawing board. After the realization that exploration was turning away 2D Mario fans from playing 3D Mario, they switched to more linear level design with “Super Mario Galaxy”. To create a game where players wouldn’t feel lost running around a 3D plain, many of the worlds would be designed around the concept of running around spheres or linear obstacle courses.
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you know i always thought i was just being salty what with new games being a joke designed to sell more and take less effort but
well
i mean
um

thanks ninty <D

PS. Im just gonna defend Sunshine and say the biggest flaw of the game is that half of its content feels unfinished. The main shinesprites you get are all good and creative tasks but if you go for 100% completition its where it gets repetitive. Plus what King Hehehe pointed out about the swimming mechanics is very true. Sunshine's problem is that it's very unpolished, but the main concept and level design in general seriously stands out to me and has a very unique feel among Mario games that still stands to this day. Hell, the fact all of the levels were based around summer vacation and still managed to be vastly different shows ''Grass Snow Desert Lava'' doesn't have any excuse beyond being lazy, unoriginal and pandering to the classics (you could even have all levels based on grass and still make em different).

BigMagma said:
I think a lot of people disliked Super Mario Sunshine because it felt like a gimmicky Super Mario 64 not because the setting was too different
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I have to disagree here. The whole game is designed around FLUDD so the gameplay varies an awful lot despite Mario himself moving similarly to SM64; that goes to show with those areas where you didn't have the water cannon on ya, they play very differently to the rest of the game and depend solely on Mario's moves. Not to mention if people disliked a 'gimmicky Super Mario 64' then Galaxy wouldn't be half as popular as it is given it's way more similar gameplay-wise.

I think the problem Nintendo seems to have here is that now they're carrying the games solely with a gameplay gimmick in mind and they don't deliver a whole package anymore. I've heard wonders about how Super Mario 3D World plays but at the end of the day it's very forgettable and easily falls into the ''SMB3 + Galaxy'' influence that most games of the franchise seem to be going for nowadays. People will probably remember it just for the cat suit in a few years.
 
It's a shame that 3D Mario's don't sell well, because unlike Zelda, I much prefer the 3D Mario outings to the 2D ones. In my ideal world, Nintendo would spend their budget making high-quality 2D Zelda games and 3D Mario games. Unfortunately, they do the exact opposite : s

But I don't think we'll see another true 3D Mario game like Sunshine or 64. Those 3D platformer games were a "phase" of the late 90s and early 00s.
 
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