Puyo Puyo

[puyokid]

Fair enough, I personally just like to go with the most simple options, since age doesn't really affect much in the Puyoverse much of the time, I mean 13 year old Witch can live on her own and run a shop, while Schezo despite being almost 200 years old, is still very immature from the way he acts, in a way that makes it easy to believe that he'd be just someone in his early 20s, instead of someone with almost two centuries worth of experiences. Speaking of Schezo, that's not even going into the many questions that come up, when keeping his actual age in mind.

Oh, I totally get where you're coming from. It's just that I just like to add a little bit more depth and background to Puyo Puyo's rich lore whenever I get a chance, you know? Heck, considering the fact that SEGA seems to have REALLY let up on that aspect of the series, this is ESPECIALLY notable in comparison to Compile's take on these kind of things back in the day.

Nope, she's a mook in that game, unlike other MM appearances where she's a passive NPC, which makes me think that someone on the development stuff goofed up and confused her with Merrow, since that was the time when Seriri started to appear in MM, while Merrow was already getting phased out of the franchise at large, only showing up again for BOX.

OK, THAT makes WAY more sense to me. Like I said earlier, Merrow is quite notable for essentially being Seriri's polar opposite especially in terms of their personalities, so her being an enemy to Arle in that manner would obviously be MUCH more plausible than Seriri being all out-of character and getting hostile towards her.

.......Still though, I do hope SEGA remembers her for Quest. Hey, it's not like Merrow isn't fair game for them anyway. And her dislike for humans could prove to have some interesting interactions with the rest of the cast, especially with the likes of characters like Seriri, Suketoudara, Ocean Prince, Otomo, and Maguro to name a few.

2) The only one that would really fit personality wise is Ally, giving the love theme and all, but then again I haven't really thought of Risukuma in that situation before...certain jokes that used to be made about him a lot discouraged me from that, which makes me happy that the PPT localization worked around that in a way that doesn't directly make people think pedobear whenever he as much as opens his mouth. I like Risu and never looked at him that way, but yah know, some things in the Japanese original really make you wonder what SEGA was thinking.

Personally, I had the idea of an entirely NEW character to serve as a love interest for Risukuma. Specifically, a girl who shares his love of science and actually finds him adorable with his squirrel- bear look.

Here's the basic outline of what I'd make Risukuma's hypothetical love interest to be. If I was good at drawing, I'd just do that, but alas.

Spoiler

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you mean on how Ally would seem to work personality-wise, but I just wanted to try something a little different, you know? Not to mention, it would hopefully give Ringo's dimension a bit more to it than just her, Risukuma, Maguro, and Ecolo.

Also, about the pedobear jokes, I can't tell you how glad I am that SEGA managed to work around THAT little personality quirk of his. I also never looked at him like that before either, but the West can be...very unforgiving with memes you know. I can't even imagine how the West would have destroyed poor Risukuma with "Pedobear" memes left and right had PP7 first come out over here back in 2009.




BTW, I came across this Puyo confession today, and I can't tell you how much I want a Puyo game like this. Essentially, going the Yo~n route in terms of storytelling. Honestly, it seems as if Fever 2 and PP7 were trying to pull this off, but no dice.

http://puyoconfessions.tumblr.com/post/162282585844/while-i-absolutely-love-the-fun-and-goofy

 

[warelander]

Also, about the pedobear jokes, I can't tell you how glad I am that SEGA managed to work around THAT little personality quirk of his. I also never looked at him like that before either, but the West can be...very unforgiving with memes you know. I can't even imagine how the West would have destroyed poor Risukuma with "Pedobear" memes left and right had PP7 first come out over here back in 2009.

Fortunately the PPT localization has prevented these kind of impressions to hit the Puyo newcomers of today, because...well, things weren't good for him within the western fandom for a while :

That's from the Introduction to Puyo article on Puyo Nexus.

BTW, I came across this Puyo confession today, and I can't tell you how much I want a Puyo game like this. Essentially, going the Yo~n route in terms of storytelling. Honestly, it seems as if Fever 2 and PP7 were trying to pull this off, but no dice.

http://puyoconfessions.tumblr.com/post/162282585844/while-i-absolutely-love-the-fun-and-goofy

Been thinking for a bit and while I would like something darker as well my biggest wish would be for the series to simply become less static again.

One of the big things that I love about 15th is that it really feels like things progressed from Fever 2, Oshare's backstory was hinted at in F2 and not only get's fully revealed, but also becomes a major motivation for him in 15th, Sig's encounters with Onion Pixy and Ocean Prince build off of happenings from Fever 2 and he actually knows a number of things about Arle that we never see him find out on screen, further showing how much closer they have gotten between games.

You rarely get stuff like this nowadays,things like Draco's and Rider's relationship as established in 20th getting brought up again in Chronicle is nice, but not as common as I'd like it to be and storylines that could span over multiple games, like so much of the Fever world's lore aren't taken advantage of.

 

[puyokid]

Fortunately the PPT localization has prevented these kind of impressions to hit the Puyo newcomers of today, because...well, things weren't good for him within the western fandom for a while :

That's from the Introduction to Puyo article on Puyo Nexus.

.........THE SAVAGERY.......

Been thinking for a bit and while I would like something darker as well my biggest wish would be for the series to simply become less static again.

One of the big things that I love about 15th is that it really feels like things progressed from Fever 2, Oshare's backstory was hinted at in F2 and not only get's fully revealed, but also becomes a major motivation for him in 15th, Sig's encounters with Onion Pixy and Ocean Prince build off of happenings from Fever 2 and he actually knows a number of things about Arle that we never see him find out on screen, further showing how much closer they have gotten between games.

You rarely get stuff like this nowadays,things like Draco's and Rider's relationship as established in 20th getting brought up again in Chronicle is nice, but not as common as I'd like it to be and storylines that could span over multiple games, like so much of the Fever world's lore aren't taken advantage of.

It's so weird how 15th seems to have more better interactions between the Madou-era cast and Fever-era cast than 20th did between the Madou-era cast, Fever-era cast, and the characters of PP7. Then again, no one's ever really translated the entirety of 20th, so I guess I shouldn't be talking too soon there. Still though, I would like to see more "out-of-the-box" character interactions. While Draco and Rider HAVE interacted, it's nothing that really goes into their sister-like relationship. Heck, does Draco even have an opinion on whether or not she sees Rider the same way? I know through 15th that Satan isn't all that keen on being referred as her "brother", but he doesn't mind Rider's presence overall.

Also, I totally understand where you're coming from in terms of SEGA's Puyo storylines and lore spanning over various games. I mean, we STILL have NO idea as to what the heck Popoi TRULY is (A subject that Popoi GREATLY tries to avoid when Schezo brings it up in Chronicles), Ms. Accord's occasional mysterious personality, the demon in Klug's book who could return one day, what Ecolo is., etc. I know Puyo Puyo is simply a puzzle game, but that doesn't mean they can't give it more depth, right? If Compile was in this situation with SEGA's current characters and settings, I know they'd take advantage of this by actually giving things like this conclusions or something.

 

[warelander]

The problem I see isn't so much an unwillingness on SEGA's part, but rather the fact that the series has kind of run itself into a corner, when it introduced a third world in 7, since ever since 20th the series has to cater to three seperate eras of the series, all of which face some problems:

While we got increasingly more Madou era characters back a majority is still out of luck and the Madou world is a complete non-factor now.

While Primp is still the current main location of the series much of the Fever cast is gone and the general backstory and even villains of Fever are relegated to passing references and non-story playable appearences. In addition Raffine and Sig lost their status as main characters,

The PP7 world has been a complete afterthought right after it's introduction and has never been truly defined. Also, while Ringo and Ecolo continue to get big appearences Maguro and Risukuma remain insignificant and it shows, with just how many non-game materials such as most of the Light Novels or the Stage Show leave them out completely.

Because they have to juggle three eras, the series took a safe route by settling with the current format, where it's pretty much all about the A Trio, often in a new world, Satan has some part in it and Ecolo's deus ex machina powers resolve or cause the main conflict somehow, while everyone else is just kind of there and gone as quickly as they come around.

It's a safe route, because it means they don't need to put much focus on the extended cast and their backstories, as well as any of the existing worlds at large, but that also makes it very shallow and repetetive. Chronicle in particular is a good example of that, with how unremarkable the new world is and how badly Ally get's shoved into the background once Amitie and Ringo hit the scene,

Character interactions where affected too, 20th did put some effort in coming up with new ideas and PPT at least had the Schezo/Sig chapter, but for the most part the characters' relationships rarely get any attention or focus anymore, outside of a number select ones. It's most noticable with Arle, who went from being a part of Primp's community in 15th to having all but one of her opponents in her 20th story come from the Madou era, in fact Sig, Ms. Accord and Lemres are really the only ties to the Fever cast (that aren't Amitie) that she has these days and even those don't get anywhere near the focus that they should.

All I really want is a game that defies all of that for once and turns the current narrative formula on it's head, Chronicle felt like it tried to do better, but was too afraid to venture too far out of it's comfort zone.

 

[puyokid]

The problem I see isn't so much an unwillingness on SEGA's part, but rather the fact that the series has kind of run itself into a corner, when it introduced a third world in 7, since ever since 20th the series has to cater to three separate eras of the series, all of which face some problems:

While we got increasingly more Madou era characters back a majority is still out of luck and the Madou world is a complete non-factor now.

While Primp is still the current main location of the series much of the Fever cast is gone and the general backstory and even villains of Fever are relegated to passing references and non-story playable appearances. In addition Raffine and Sig lost their status as main characters,

The PP7 world has been a complete afterthought right after it's introduction and has never been truly defined. Also, while Ringo and Ecolo continue to get big appearances Maguro and Risukuma remain insignificant and it shows, with just how many non-game materials such as most of the Light Novels or the Stage Show leave them out completely.

Because they have to juggle three eras, the series took a safe route by settling with the current format, where it's pretty much all about the A Trio, often in a new world, Satan has some part in it and Ecolo's deus ex machina powers resolve or cause the main conflict somehow, while everyone else is just kind of there and gone as quickly as they come around.

It's a safe route, because it means they don't need to put much focus on the extended cast and their backstories, as well as any of the existing worlds at large, but that also makes it very shallow and repetitive. Chronicle in particular is a good example of that, with how unremarkable the new world is and how badly Ally get's shoved into the background once Amitie and Ringo hit the scene,

Character interactions where affected too, 20th did put some effort in coming up with new ideas and PPT at least had the Schezo/Sig chapter, but for the most part the characters' relationships rarely get any attention or focus anymore, outside of a number select ones. It's most noticeable with Arle, who went from being a part of Primp's community in 15th to having all but one of her opponents in her 20th story come from the Madou era, in fact Sig, Ms. Accord and Lemres are really the only ties to the Fever cast (that aren't Amitie) that she has these days and even those don't get anywhere near the focus that they should.

All I really want is a game that defies all of that for once and turns the current narrative formula on it's head, Chronicle felt like it tried to do better, but was too afraid to venture too far out of it's comfort zone.

Wow, you pretty much hit the nail on the head here. When you REALLY look at things deeper, SEGA's problem may be that they introduced Ringo's dimension a just bit too soon (and maybe NOT RE-introducing Arle's world soon enough...). I mean, if I'm being honest? I don't regret it, as I REALLY love the cast of PP7. But still, the fact that the lore of the Fever-era, and character backstories of that dimension ended up being shafted WAY too early does NOT do them favors.

It doesn't help that Suzuran isn't any more fleshed out than when it was first introduced in PP7 for that matter. Looking at it now, I'm a little surprised that Suzuran ended up being PPT's main setting, considering how ignored the place usually is from a narrative standpoint. You pretty much explained what I was about to say upon the likes of Raffine, Sig, Risukuma, and Maguro all being nothing more supporting characters when they should be much more. Honestly, it almost seems as if Rulue and Schezo are heading that way too. Heck, I noticed how Ally even got LESS screen-time in Chronicles, despite being advertised as the game's secondary main character.

I'll admit juggling 3 eras worth of characters can be tiresome, but if Compile could make a bit of time for the loads of characters they introduced...well...I mean, I feel like a Puyo manga or anime seriously feels like the best way to go about the lore of the 3-4 dimensions, and character backstories at this point.

If SEGA can make a Puyo game which has better character interactions, lore, and backstories, I'll regard it as the best Puyo game ever. Also, better storytelling wouldn't exactly hurt at this point either. The game doesn't need to be as dark as the Madou games, but maybe something with Yo~n's storytelling mixed with 15th's character interactions and Fever 2's backstory detailing.

 

[warelander]

When you REALLY look at things deeper, SEGA's problem may be that they introduced Ringo's dimension a just bit too soon (and maybe NOT RE-introducing Arle's world soon enough...). I mean, if I'm being honest? I don't regret it, as I REALLY love the cast of PP7. But still, the fact that the lore of the Fever-era, and character backstories of that dimension ended up being shafted WAY too early does NOT do them favors.

Honestly I think that introducing yet another world was just dumb in general, given all of the baggage that comes with it and how they always have to come up with excuses to have the PP7 cast show up, especially since they could have easily just brought the PP7 charas in as people from a neighbour town, (and Ecolo doesn't even need that either). The only thing you'd lose is 7's story, which is a small price to pay, as far as I'm concerned.

Heck, I noticed how Ally even got LESS screen-time in Chronicles, despite being advertised as the game's secondary main character.

Ally should have been the main character to begin with, for all the improvements it did make Chronicle in general stands as a great example as to why I don't like the A Trio formula, since you have this wonderful idea of having such a large cast on a adventure together and yet everyone besides the A girls get regulary silenced as if they weren't even there and now it's even gotten to a point where even the new character doesn't get much spotlight and I'm sorry, but that's stupid.

Now to be fair, all games post 15th did have things about their stories, such as the references to dropped Fever characters in PP7, many of the fresh character combinations (Rider/Draco, Sig/Witch, Ocean Prince/Feli, Schezo/Risukuma) in 20th, everything about the Tetris charas in PPT and Rafisol and her character development in Chronicle, just to name one thing per game.

There's still plenty to like and I have no problem to believe that SEGA could do as well as they used to if they simply stepped out of their comfort zone more often again, I'm just really craving to see something like that again as soon as possible, because as much as I might sometimes call the series out on things that I think it could do better, it's only because I hold it in very high regard and simply want it to be the best it can be.

On an unrelated note I found this yesterday at random:

So we can now add Sullivan to the list of girls that Sig has been seen with. Slow it down bug boy or else I can't keep up.

 

[puyokid]

Honestly, I think that introducing yet another world was just dumb in general, given all of the baggage that comes with it and how they always have to come up with excuses to have the PP7 cast show up, especially since they could have easily just brought the PP7 characters in as people from a neighbor town, (and Ecolo doesn't even need that either). The only thing you'd lose is 7's story, which is a small price to pay, as far as I'm concerned.

Call me naive for saying this, but if I'm being honest? I actually want Suzuran to be kept in....as a separate dimension from Arle's and Amitie's. The reason being that I'm still holding out that Suzuran will be more fleshed out AND that we get that "Fish-Out-Of-Water" story we never got with PP7. I know, it's one heck of a pipe dream but more crazier things have happened...

As a matter of fact, you know what I wish SEGA would do to rectify this issue already? Use the plot point of Arle's wish in 15th. I mean, with the amount of times PP7's cast has shown up (with BARELY any issue, might I add), they may as well do this. Heck, maybe it could work for Arle's dimension too, as Arle intended for it.

Also, maybe it's just me, but another reason that I want Suzuran to stay as it is for now is because I feel like there's some real potential in the idea of a future Puyo game's storyline focusing on the fact that the "real world" (a.k.a. Ringo's dimension) becomes exposed to the idea that not only does REAL magic exist (along with the mythical creatures and individuals that it usually brings with it such as Satan, Draco, Witch, etc.), but also the fact that the multiverse theory is VERY much real in the Puyo/Madou series.

Ally should have been the main character to begin with, for all the improvements it did make Chronicle in general stands as a great example as to why I don't like the A Trio formula, since you have this wonderful idea of having such a large cast on a adventure together and yet everyone besides the A girls get regularly silenced as if they weren't even there and now it's even gotten to a point where even the new character doesn't get much spotlight and I'm sorry, but that's stupid.

I know, right? I went back and looked at Chronicles' cutscenes following Amitie and Ringo's recruitment into the group, and Ally really does get WAY less screentime in Chronicles....and she's supposed to be the newest addition to the main cast! I mean, Arle, Amitie, and Ringo ALL got at least ONE whole introduction game focusing solely on them. Why couldn't Ally? I really feel like the 'A' Trio "formula needs to be limited in ho many games it's being used in at this point. Like, save it for the Anniversary games, and I'd be cool with that, personally.

Long story short, It feels a little...unfair that Ally didn't get the same treatment. I wonder if it's because Chronicles was technically the series' 25th Anniversary game. Heck, can we consider Chronicles a mainline title at this point...?

Now to be fair, all games post 15th did have things about their stories, such as the references to dropped Fever characters in PP7, many of the fresh character combinations (Rider/Draco, Sig/Witch, Ocean Prince/Feli, Schezo/Risukuma) in 20th, everything about the Tetris charas in PPT and Rafisol and her character development in Chronicle, just to name one thing per game.

Yeah, I will give credit to the post-15th Anniversary games for their occasional "out-there" interactions and even occasional character development like what you listed. Heck, it would seem that Rafisol herself even gets her very own little post-game story that you can go through, which seems to cement her status as a good character*.

*It's funny, but Rafisol's post-game story seems like something Doppel. Arle could have used as character development had Compile kept the series or if SEGA would simply do more with her.

There's still plenty to like and I have no problem to believe that SEGA could do as well as they used to if they simply stepped out of their comfort zone more often again, I'm just really craving to see something like that again as soon as possible, because as much as I might sometimes call the series out on things that I think it could do better, it's only because I hold it in very high regard and simply want it to be the best it can be.

Exactly!! That's how I feel too! Puyo Puyo may be a puzzle game, but let's be honest. For a series of puzzle games, once you combine the likes of Compile's Puyo/Madou content and SEGA's Puyo content all into one entity. you have an unusually large amount of raw potential to do WAY more in terms of its story, character backgrounds, and various settings than they're currently working at, don't you think?

I mean, you could do some pretty memorable stuff with the cast of PP7 of all people, like give them even MORE unusual character backstories and those guys are essentially just..."normal" high schoolers (bar Ecolo obviously, who is already a VERY mysterious entity in and of itself already) hailing from the "real world" (by Puyo/Madou standards). Heck, this is a puzzle game series that was initially spun-off from (IMO) one of the DARKEST JRPGs I've ever had the..."fortune" of being aware of.

Just like you, I hold this series in (admittedly) surprisingly HIGH regard (for a puzzle game) because it has the potential to do (and be) SO much more than what they're currently settling on.

On an unrelated note I found this yesterday at random:

So we can now add Sullivan to the list of girls that Sig has been seen with. Slow it down bug boy or else I can't keep up.

Umm....you DO know Sullivan is... a boy, right? Don't worry, Incubus made that mistake too (With obviously HILARIOUS results).

 

[warelander]

Call me naive for saying this, but if I'm being honest? I actually want Suzuran to be kept in....as a separate dimension from Arle's and Amitie's. The reason being that I'm still holding out that Suzuran will be more fleshed out AND that we get that "Fish-Out-Of-Water" story we never got with PP7. I know, it's one heck of a pipe dream but more crazier things have happened...

Well Suzuran is here to stay as it is, so may as well do something worthwhile with it, even if I'm absolutely sick of the constant world travel stories and plot points.

I really feel like the 'A' Trio "formula needs to be limited in ho many games it's being used in at this point. Like, save it for the Anniversary games, and I'd be cool with that, personally.

I'd rather have them do away with it completely, it's not like it has ever done anything for the series,

*It's funny, but Rafisol's post-game story seems like something Doppel. Arle could have used as character development had Compile kept the series or if SEGA would simply do more with her.

It's funny you say that, because I actually have used the basic ideas of Rafisol's story in Sig x Doppel fics for long before Chronicles was even out, so it certainly resonated with me quite a bit.

Umm....you DO know Sullivan is... a boy, right? Don't worry, Incubus made that mistake too (With obviously HILARIOUS results).

Ah yeah, they even make fun of his appearence, but no, I just forgot, but yah know, with me not playing Quest and me mostly remembering the Quest charas by their designs it's bound to happen that some things slip my mind.

Either way, I can still add him to the evergrowing pile of Sig ships that I see around, because that boy is freaking busy.

 

[puyokid]

Well, Suzuran is here to stay as it is, so may as well do something worthwhile with it, even if I'm absolutely sick of the constant world travel stories and plot points.

Yeah, see...THAT'S something even I'm getting a bit tired of. Well, moreso I'm personally getting tired of the dimensional travel plots and they don't have many concrete explanations as to HOW the cast is traveling between dimensions like that with ease to begin with.

This mostly bothers me because...well, you're telling me that Arle, Carbuncle, and the rest of the Madou-era cast is STILL having trouble returning to THEIR dimension to the point that they've all just decided to set up shop in Primp by the time 20th Anniversary rolls around? Speaking of which, in that same game, the cast of PP7 just needs Ecolo to work his "deus ex machina" powers to end himself and the rest of those guys back home to Ringo's dimension? I know Puyo is just a puzzle game series, but SEGA....come on now...

I'd rather have them do away with it completely, it's not like it has ever done anything for the series.

I've been looking into this, and on second thought, I think I'd rather the concept of the 'A' Trio be saved for something like merchandising or something along those lines. I was going to say the Light Novels, but after 'Sig's Secret', SEGA may need to prove to me that it can do a Light Novel WITHOUT botching the character interactions and relationships up when keeping the 'A' Trio as the main focus...

It's funny you say that, because I actually have used the basic ideas of Rafisol's story in Sig x Doppel fics for long before Chronicles was even out, so it certainly resonated with me quite a bit.

Really? Well, they ARE both Doppelgangers, so I guess it would like sense...Still, thinking about it now, it makes me a little sad to see how Doppelganger Arle is SO out of focus in SEGA's eyes to the point that they never bothered to resolve her little character arc from Yo~n.

Ah yeah, they even make fun of his appearance, but no, I just forgot, but yah know, with me not playing Quest and me mostly remembering the Quest charas by their designs it's bound to happen that some things slip my mind.

Oh, it's no problem. Heck, if I'm being honest? I only found out that Sullivan really was a boy from checking the TV Tropes page on Puyo Puyo's extensive cast of characters. On Incubus' section, it states that he tries to hit on Sullivan in Quest, and nearly went into shock after the reveal that he was a guy.

Man, now that I think abut it, there seems to be TONS upon TONS of Puyo/Madou info that we in the West have virtually NO idea about, such as

- Amitie's feelings for Sig apparently being MUCH more than what Fever 2 and onward have shown
- Primp's overall history
- The backstory to the demon residing in Klug's book
- The fact that there's more to Sig and his family than meets the eye
- Schezo of all people being aware of how there's more to Popoi than meets the eye
- The fact that Suzuran's shopping district (where Ringo and Maguro are said to live specifically) is MUCH bigger than one would think
- Ecolo being implied to be genderless
- Satan apparently being more of a playboy pre-SEGA-era games, etc.

Honestly, I'm sure I don't need to go into all the Madou-era stuff that no one's bothered to translate.

 

[warelander]

I've been looking into this, and on second thought, I think I'd rather the concept of the 'A' Trio be saved for something like merchandising or something along those lines. I was going to say the Light Novels, but after 'Sig's Secret', SEGA may need to prove to me that it can do a Light Novel WITHOUT botching the character interactions and relationships up when keeping the 'A' Trio as the main focus...

Thing is that it really wouldn't have even taken much to fix a lot of the problems in the writing, I think this scene represents quite well what's wrong with the LN :

This is the scene where Sig quits on Amitie and to it's credit the shocked looks and confused huh? are the most emotion we get out of Arle and Ringo in the entire novel (in regards to Sig anyway), but that's where it ends. They show no concern for him, don't try to go after him and consult him, just asking Amitie whether or not they should do so, instead of taking initiative themselves, they don't even make hasty judgement and get upset at him for seemingly letting Amitie down, there's nothing there.

That's the big thing, Arle and Ringo are really only there to encourage and support Amitie, unlike Klug and Raffine (who do wonder and worry about Sig's condition) they never show any thoughts on the matter at hand and frankly could have been written out of the story and little would have to be changed, since they aren't really characters here, but props for Amitie to interact with.

Again, that could have easily been fixed and yah know, when I ask for Arle to not be completely indifferent to Sig's condition I'm not even saying that just because I ship them, but rather because it would be far more consistent with how their relationship is portrayed in the games and Arle's personality in general and I don't think that's much to ask for.

Still, thinking about it now, it makes me a little sad to see how Doppelganger Arle is SO out of focus in SEGA's eyes to the point that they never bothered to resolve her little character arc from Yo~n.

To be fair Compile quickly went back to the usual type of story themselves with BOX, with Doppel already being largely gone, outside of Rally mode. Granted, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't want SEGA to bring her back and further work with her character, if anything her Quest quotes leave me very interested with what they would do with her, but for them to even start something they need to step out of their narrative comfort zone for once.

- Ecolo being implied to be genderless

Question, is there anything that supposedly suggests this other then him not being listed in the male category in Quest? I'm asking this because that's the only argument I ever heard and it doesn't really make sense for me, since non-humanoid characters in general like Minotauros, Suketoura or Ocean Prince aren't categorized by genders, which is especially funny with the last one, since his human Prince Salde form does assign him to the males.

 

[puyokid]

Thing is that it really wouldn't have even taken much to fix a lot of the problems in the writing, I think this scene represents quite well what's wrong with the LN :

This is the scene where Sig quits on Amitie and to it's credit the shocked looks and confused huh? are the most emotion we get out of Arle and Ringo in the entire novel (in regards to Sig anyway), but that's where it ends. They show no concern for him, don't try to go after him and consult him, just asking Amitie whether or not they should do so, instead of taking initiative themselves, they don't even make hasty judgement and get upset at him for seemingly letting Amitie down, there's nothing there.

That's the big thing, Arle and Ringo are really only there to encourage and support Amitie, unlike Klug and Raffine (who do wonder and worry about Sig's condition) they never show any thoughts on the matter at hand and frankly could have been written out of the story and little would have to be changed, since they aren't really characters here, but props for Amitie to interact with.

Again, that could have easily been fixed and yah know, when I ask for Arle to not be completely indifferent to Sig's condition I'm not even saying that just because I ship them, but rather because it would be far more consistent with how their relationship is portrayed in the games and Arle's personality in general and I don't think that's much to ask for.

Wait, Arle and Ringo actually get upset at Sig for (supposedly) "letting Amitie down"? Wow, I thought this LN had some "out-of character" moments, but this may take the cake. With them hanging around Amitie as much as they do, you'd think they'd be able tell when Sig's acting unusual (Especially Arle, who's known him somewhat longer than Ringo). I mean, I can admit that the LNs are already quite inconsistent with the games as it is (The fact that the cast of PP7 is either STILL stuck in Primp OR somehow they're able to traverse from Suzuran to Primp with virtually NO explanation is already kind of a red flag), but character-wise, this is just a bit much.

To be fair, Compile quickly went back to the usual type of story themselves with BOX, with Doppel already being largely gone, outside of Rally mode. Granted, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't want SEGA to bring her back and further work with her character, if anything her Quest quotes leave me very interested with what they would do with her, but for them to even start something they need to step out of their narrative comfort zone for once.

Yeah, you have a point there. Maybe her lines in Quest really are (hopefully) leading to something in the future....though I guess I'm exaclty going to hold my breath...

Question, is there anything that supposedly suggests this other then him not being listed in the male category in Quest? I'm asking this because that's the only argument I ever heard and it doesn't really make sense for me, since non-humanoid characters in general like Minotauros, Suketoudara or Ocean Prince aren't categorized by genders, which is especially funny with the last one, since his human Prince Salde form does assign him to the males.

Yeah, it's really weird. NOTHING in the series (as far as I know anyways) has truly inferred that Ecolo is straight-up genderless. I should mention that just to make things simple, I personally refer to Ecolo (as well as Mino, Suket, and Ocean Prince by extension) as male. IMO, it feels like they're trying to needlessly confuse us or something.


Also, side note. After quite a while, I finally found art of Succubus and Incubus in Waku Puyo Dungeon! Woo-hoo! Honestly, it almost seemed more common for me to find art /screens of Incubus than Succubus, so good day for me, I guess.

As a bonus, here's an ANNOYED Seriri:

 

[warelander]

Wait, Arle and Ringo actually get upset at Sig for (supposedly) "letting Amitie down"?

Oh, that was badly worded on my part, what I meant to say was that they don't even make any hasty judgement to get upset at him, which if they went that route could have at least been worked into a typical misunderstanding story, where they realize that they were wrong and unfair to him, which leads to them try and make up for it when they help to bring Sig back to normal during the climax, ending with a small, but heartfelt little reunion.

It still would have been a bit much for them to jump to that conclusion, but it would have given them an actual role in the story, as opposed to them just acting as Amitie's supporting squad, with no thoughts or emotions on their own.

Yeah, it's really weird. NOTHING in the series (as far as I know anyways) has truly inferred that Ecolo is straight-up genderless. I should mention that just to make things simple, I personally refer to Ecolo (as well as Mino, Suket, and Ocean Prince by extension) as male. IMO, it feels like they're trying to needlessly confuse us or something.

More like some people a reading something into a detail that doesn't mean a damn thing, especially when confirmed and undeniably male characters also fall into that as well.

And seeing does Waku Waku screencaps really reminds me how much I love that game's artstyle.

By the by, fun story, I found this a while ago :

Sig dressed up as Ness is already humerous to begin with, but recently I have been feeling like playing EarthBound again and did the consequential thing :

Hey! Remember that one game where Sig had to fight off New Age Retro Hippies at one point? That was the beeest paaaart! (Funnily enough, thanks to the characters not being seen in battle this works much better then it should.)

 

[puyokid]

Oh, that was badly worded on my part, what I meant to say was that they don't even make any hasty judgement to get upset at him, which if they went that route could have at least been worked into a typical misunderstanding story, where they realize that they were wrong and unfair to him, which leads to them try and make up for it when they help to bring Sig back to normal during the climax, ending with a small, but heartfelt little reunion.

Oh, OK. That makes WAY more sense. I know Arle and Ringo were practically living props for Amitie to talk to, but they're certainly not uncaring like that.

It still would have been a bit much for them to jump to that conclusion, but it would have given them an actual role in the story, as opposed to them just acting as Amitie's supporting squad, with no thoughts or emotions on their own.

*sigh*....what could have been.....

More like some people a reading something into a detail that doesn't mean a damn thing, especially when confirmed and undeniably male characters also fall into that as well.

Yeah, that was essentially what I meant about SEGA needlessly confusing us with this.

And seeing those Waku Waku screencaps really reminds me how much I love that game's artstyle.

I know, right? Honestly, Waku Puyo's artstyle may just be my second favorite artstyle for the ENTIRE series, with my #1 being Yo~n's artstyle! Seriously, if the series were to use an artstyle like Waku Puyo's art for future games, I'm all for it. It may not be Yo~n's artstyle, but I'll take what I can get.

By the by, fun story, I found this a while ago :

Sig dressed up as Ness is already humorous to begin with, but recently I have been feeling like playing EarthBound again and did the consequential thing :

Hey! Remember that one game where Sig had to fight off New Age Retro Hippies at one point? That was the beeest paaaart! (Funnily enough, thanks to the characters not being seen in battle this works much better then it should.)

OK, first of all, can I just say that Sig pulls off Ness' look EXTRAORDINARILY well?

Second of all, is it weird for me to say that Puyo Puyo could use a game with EarthBound's battle system? It's weird cause Madou Monogatari already beat EB to the punch by a year, and Chronicles recently did something vaguely similar.

Also unrelated, but I suddenly have this urge to see Sig and Kodomo Dragon interact in a Puyo game one day (if Quest hasn't already done such a thing).

 

[warelander]

Oh, OK. That makes WAY more sense. I know Arle and Ringo were practically living props for Amitie to talk to, but they're certainly not uncaring like that.

Yah know, I give Sig's Secret credit for a number of things and even consider it my favorite of the Light Novels, but the way Arle and Ringo were handled is one of my biggest disappontments with Puyo to date, especially Arle and the obvious reason doesn't even have much to do with it, I just really like their dynamic and find it to be incredibly underused and underappreciated, it's made clear in the games that Arle knows and likes Sig, even the friggin' stage show has no problems to acknowledge that, so I really don't get what they are going for in the Light Novels, it's just one gigantic personal disappointment for me.

OK, first of all, can I just say that Sig pulls off Ness' look EXTRAORDINARILY well?
Second of all, is it weird for me to say that Puyo Puyo could use a game with EarthBound's battle system? It's weird cause Madou Monogatari already beat EB to the punch by a year, and Chronicles recently did something vaguely similar.

Heh, he sure does and hey, I love the Mother series and have been wanting a new full fledged RPG in the Puyoverse for a long time, so one that takes inspiration from Mother would be a match made in heaven for me.

Though the whole high school uniform theme in PP7 has also given me images of a Puyo RPG with Persona inspiration on several occasions, especially fitting since SEGA has owned ATLUS for a while now.

Also unrelated, but I suddenly have this urge to see Sig and Kodomo Dragon interact in a Puyo game one day (if Quest hasn't already done such a thing).

Not that I'm aware of, Quest did have him interact with Honey Bee in one story quest, so I'd say anything's possible, would be nice to have more of that stuff, instead of him just being perpetually glued to Amitie's back.

 

[puyokid]

Heh, he sure does and hey, I love the Mother series and have been wanting a new full fledged RPG in the Puyoverse for a long time, so one that takes inspiration from Mother would be a match made in heaven for me.

Same here! After Chronicles, we can see that SEGA seems to at least have an idea of where Puyo Puyo would go if they wanted to revisit Madou Monogatari. Well, specifically the SEGA Saturn game, I guess...?

Though the whole high school uniform theme in PP7 has also given me images of a Puyo RPG with Persona inspiration on several occasions, especially fitting since SEGA has owned ATLUS for a while now.

I certainly can't blame you. Heck, I've always wondered what everyone in PP7 (as in Lemres and the entire Madou-era cast outside of Arle) would have looked like after seeing stuff like this:

Who knows? Maybe a Puyo x Persona would be in the cards. As a matter of fact there ARE people out there who apparently support the idea. It also helps that a majority of PPT's English dub VA cast worked on Persona 5, no less.

Not that I'm aware of, Quest did have him interact with Honey Bee in one story quest, so I'd say anything's possible, would be nice to have more of that stuff, instead of him just being perpetually glued to Amitie's back.

Oh, wow! Sig actually met Honey Bee in Quest? Neat! Well, let's be honest...that was an interaction that was practically almost DESTINED to happen at some point. Hopefully, he'll meet Kodomo Dragon next. I've got the feeling that those to will get along more than swimmingly.

Also, two things:

1. About Sig being perpetually stuck to Amitie...let's just say that I hope Puyo Puyo will have everyone have more moments where they're not just talking to only characters from their era.

2. Out of curiosity, what story quest had Sig and Honey Bee meet up for the first time, anyways?

 

[warelander]

Who knows? Maybe a Puyo x Persona would be in the cards. As a matter of fact there ARE people out there who apparently support the idea. It also helps that a majority of PPT's English dub VA cast worked on Persona 5, no less.

Not to mention both series being particulary big in Japan and given that Puyo was rather obscure and exotic in the west for a long time I wouldn't be surprised if there was a notable overlap in audiences, no matter how much the series' may differ.

Also, two things:

1. About Sig being perpetually stuck to Amitie...let's just say that I hope Puyo Puyo will have everyone have more moments where they're not just talking to only characters from their era.

2. Out of curiosity, what story quest had Sig and Honey Bee meet up for the first time, anyways?

1. Well yeah, but in Sig's case it really is a Amitie problem, given that we don't even see him all that much with other classmates anymore, which bothers me. I wanna see him with Ocean Prince again, more with him and Schezo or Arle, another confrontation with Strange Klug or put him with someone he hasn't interacted yet, like Draco or Maguro, just something different other then 80% of his screentime being shared with the same character over and over again.

2. It was in ''Sig's Fesitval Tour'', here's a screenie :

 

[warelander]

Also, here's me rambling a bit about an accusation that I hear used against Sig a lot.

 

[puyokid]

Not to mention both series being particularly big in Japan and given that Puyo was rather obscure and exotic in the west for a long time I wouldn't be surprised if there was a notable overlap in audiences, no matter how much the series' may differ.

It's weird how things work out like that, huh? As a matter of fact, you know how Yo~n had an artstyle that GREATLY differed from the first 3 games? What if Persona's art director did the art for a Puyo game?

One thing's for sure, I can't even begin to imagine Satan in Persona's art style. He'd probably look like a combined modernized take on his PC98 and Yo~n look.

1. Well yeah, but in Sig's case it really is a Amitie problem, given that we don't even see him all that much with other classmates anymore, which bothers me. I wanna see him with Ocean Prince again, more with him and Schezo or Arle, another confrontation with Strange Klug or put him with someone he hasn't interacted yet, like Draco or Maguro, just something different other then 80% of his screentime being shared with the same character over and over again.

Yeah, I also noticed that. Not only that, but I would like to see him with people like Draco, Maguro, Satan, etc. I LOVE his interactions with Amitie (Aside from shipping the heck out of them), but it gets kind of old after a while.

2. It was in ''Sig's Fesitval Tour'', here's a screenie :

Well, I'll be. MAn, I wish I knew what they were saying here.

Speaking of which, do you think Quest has a chance being released in the West......unaltered?


Also, remember when I brought up the idea of a Puyo fighting game?

Well, I never went into detail on who I'd add, so here are the characters:

Arle
Amitie
Ringo
Ally
Carbuncle
Rulue
Schezo
Satan
Suketoudara
Draco
Witch
Minotauros
Lagnus
Seriri
Succubus
Incubus
Chico and Dragon
Kodomo Dragon
Kikimora
Doppelganger Arle
Raffine
Sig
Klug
Rider
Tarutaru
Ms. Accord
Lemres
Feli
Yu & Rei
Akuma
Ocean Prince (with Otomo)
Popoi
Strange Klug
Oshare Bones
Ringo
Risukuma
Maguro
Ecolo
Dark Arle
Rafisol

I'll think of more later...but for now, what do you think?

 

[warelander]

What if Persona's art director did the art for a Puyo game?

One thing's for sure, I can't even begin to imagine Satan in Persona's art style. He'd probably look like a combined modernized take on his PC98 and Yo~n look.

I'd love that, especially if it's anything like Persona 5, that game's visuals had style, right down to even the friggin' battle prompts.

Speaking of which, do you think Quest has a chance being released in the West......unaltered?

I doubt it, after four years of activity and the arcade version having been shut down that ship has likely sailed.

I'll think of more later...but for now, what do you think?

Seems about right.

By the by, what do you think about my little Sig ramble, do you agree with it? It was a very important thing for me to write down, because I find Sig to be a very misunderstood character in certain parts of the fandom, I once even saw someone say that they find the idea of Amitie x Sig distasteful, since he supposedly only cares about bugs, which always frustrates me because there is so much more to him then that and while 20th started to make his bug obsession a bit too prominent for my liking it's really only Chronicle that's very guilty of flanderizing it.

 

[puyokid]

I'd love that, especially if it's anything like Persona 5, that game's visuals had style, right down to even the friggin' battle prompts.

Ain't that the truth!

I doubt it, after four years of activity and the arcade version having been shut down that ship has likely sailed.

*sigh*....You've probably right...

Still, we never thought a Puyo game would be released in the West whatsoever, so stranger things have happened. Not to mention that PPT has gotten (for the most part) VERY favorable reviews. Combined with SEGA's recent announcement of retooling their work ethic leading up to the year 2020, maybe this means Quest COULD have a slim possibility of being released here. Hopefully sooner than later.

Also, here's me rambling a bit about an accusation that I hear used against Sig a lot.

By the by, what do you think about my little Sig ramble, do you agree with it? It was a very important thing for me to write down, because I find Sig to be a very misunderstood character in certain parts of the fandom, I once even saw someone say that they find the idea of Amitie x Sig distasteful, since he supposedly only cares about bugs, which always frustrates me because there is so much more to him then that and while 20th started to make his bug obsession a bit too prominent for my liking it's really only Chronicle that's very guilty of flanderizing it.

Yeah, I wanted to talk to you about that yesterday. I just want to say that I more than agree with your points about Sig. As Fever 2 and 15th Anniversary have shown (I won't include 20th Anniversary, only because there's been barely any translation for that, so we can't really tell what going on in that game), he does NOT have a one-track mind in regards to bugs and he can be surprisingly perceptive.

I also felt like it showed well in 15th Anniversary with him being able to almost instantly tell that not only was Rulue not a resident of Primp, but she came from an entirely different DIMENSION of all things. Let's be honest, he could have easily believed she came from a neighboring town, yet her being from another DIMENSION was (more or less) his first guess.

BTW, there's also the fact that Sig was even willing to fight RULUE of all people for Arle's sake (And to be fair, there's nothing that says he wouldn't do the same for anyone else he cared about). Normally, anyone who isn't necessarily stronger than her (i.e. the 'A' Trio, Suketoudara, Draco, Witch, the students of Primp Magic Academy (Tarutaru included), etc.) is shown to be more or less TERRIFIED (or at the very least, GREATLY intimidated) of facing the "Fighting Queen". Sig (admittedly a possible result of his MOSTLY non-existent emotions) is quite possibly the ONLY Puyo/Madou character (who is NOT necessarily stronger than her) that I've seen who never showed off any "fear" of facing her in battle. IMO, that says a WHOLE lot.

Also, it's fairly obvious that bugs aren't the only thing that Sig cares about, as Amitie, Arle and the Fever-era certainly cast hold a place in his heart. That being said, I have to admit that it DOES annoy me more than it should that someone doesn't think that Amitie x Sig isn't possible just because he has an affinity for bugs. I mean, it's even shown more often than not that he cares for Amitie and all of his friends and even holds a lot of faith in them and trusts them more than we think.

Heck, PPT even shows us that Amitie's feelings for Sig are apparently MUCH greater than most believe, and that she'd like to be more to to him than just a friend. (Memory) Sig even shows that he's not exactly OPPOSED to being with Amitie in that manner, so for anyone who claims that he ONLY cares about bugs is VERY far off the mark there.