Puyo Puyo

[puyokid]

Sure thing. I do really like the art, makes me wonder who else might get the Level 7 treatment in the future.

Honestly, I'm expecting EVERYONE from the Madou-era, Fever-era, and Ecolo to get the 7* treatment, or at the very least, the remaining cast members of 20th Anniversary who aren't confirmed to have one yet (Satan, Ms. Accord, Ecolo, Rider, etc.)

And that's fine, just a typical cases where personal desires just differ a bit.

Yeah, I guess so. I'm sure you know I wasn't trying to start an argument from the last couple of posts, right?

 

[Magma]

I can't wait for Tarutaru Level 7 treatment.

 

[puyokid]

I can't wait for Tarutaru Level 7 treatment.

You and me both, my friend! You and me both!

BTW, I found a Twitter account that contains ALL Puyo Quest art!

https://twitter.com/PPQExtracts

 

[warelander]

Yeah, I guess so. I'm sure you know I wasn't trying to start an argument from the last couple of posts, right?

Oh of course, no worries.

By the by, I mentioned it in the past in passing but I find it very curious how SEGA uses Strange Klug, he's not a dropped character, but he's not quite a regular either, there is a clear interest to use him, but there seems to be some struggle on how to do so, because the only logical progression for him is for the demon to be vanquished for good and that would be a huge step to take.

Thing is, would you be okay with that happening, if it meant getting a conclusion for the character?

It might sound weird coming from a fan of the character, but I wouldn't be too opposed to it, it's not like SEGA is doing much with him to begin with, though I do think the should make it something big, kind of what like what happened with Fawful in the Mario & Luigi series, another noteworthy, recurring fan favorite character that was eventually killed off, but got a pretty great finale to himself in Bowser's Inside Story and I'd for the demon to get a similar treatment, plus points if Sig plays the big part that he should have, given their connection n' all.

 

[puyokid]

By the by, I mentioned it in the past in passing but I find it very curious how SEGA uses Strange Klug, he's not a dropped character, but he's not quite a regular either, there is a clear interest to use him, but there seems to be some struggle on how to do so, because the only logical progression for him is for the demon to be vanquished for good and that would be a huge step to take.

Thing is, would you be okay with that happening, if it meant getting a conclusion for the character?

It might sound weird coming from a fan of the character, but I wouldn't be too opposed to it, it's not like SEGA is doing much with him to begin with, though I do think they should make it something big, kind of what like what happened with Fawful in the Mario & Luigi series, another noteworthy, recurring fan favorite character that was eventually killed off, but got a pretty great finale to himself in Bowser's Inside Story and I'd like for the demon to get a similar treatment, plus points if Sig plays the big part that he should have, given their connection n' all.

Well...if I'm being honest? Yes, I would be OK with it. As long as the conclusion ISN'T (BIG emphasis on ISN'T) completely half-assed like (admittedly) a number of Puyo games lately.

Also, at the risk of sounding like I'm patting myself on the back here...well, do you still remember my idea of a Puyo game that sort of repeats the events of the Madou game, 'Tower of the Magician'?

Where the demon would take control of Witch after opening the book containing it that Klug gave her to help him look into its mysterious secrets and power. So from there, "Strange Witch" would begin her 'man-hunt' for Sig, eventually finding him and take control of him, resulting in the demon regaining its original body AND full power, leaving the rest of the cast to rescue Sig and Witch (After realizing her latent potential, Witch was left under the demon's mind-control in the event that it may need her for any future endeavors).

In regards to Sig, I imagine that this hypothetical game would mark the return of his characterization where he'd like to know more about his family's demon heritage and unusual anatomy and powers, asking around to anyone he considers old enough to tell him the details. Said hypothetical would also mark the return of Akuma (for obvious reasons).

...Well, that's what I'd like to see as a game which concludes the demon's existence in the series.

 

[warelander]

Funnily enough this question just came to my mind when I was about to ask whether or not Puyo should have a more evil then usual antagonist, since Satan and Ecolo aren't really evil, Doppel is too ambiguous to say for sure, Popoi is just a big question mark and Rafisol already got redeemed in her debut game, but then I remembered that we already have someone like that with Strange Klug.

Speaking of Strange Klug, can we take a moment to appreciate that Klug's theme in 15th is pretty much a ''good guy'' version of Surge of the Crimson Scream:

 

[puyokid]

Funnily enough, this question just came to my mind when I was about to ask whether or not Puyo should have a more evil than usual antagonist, since Satan and Ecolo aren't really evil, Doppel is too ambiguous to say for sure, Popoi is just a big question mark and Rafisol already got redeemed in her debut game, but then I remembered that we already have someone like that with Strange Klug.

Honestly, I feel like this series has the potential for an ACTUAL antagonist. Like, I REALLY would want an actual villain in this series, since Satan and Ecolo (reality warpers, no less) aren't going to cut it at this point.

All things considered, I'd say there are the options of Doppel. Schzeo, Dark Witch, the Count, or even...The Phantom God. Except...

- Doppel. Schezo was destroyed in Waku Puyo Dungeon (Unless you count Puyo BOX).

- Dark Witch really only existed in Witch's dream (unless you want to count Puyo BOX), and even THEN, I don't know if I'd call her a major threat. Then again, I AM hazy on the details of the events of Comet Summoner.

- The Count is (for the most part) not even owned by SEGA, so he wouldn't work either.

- The Phantom God and its Gem Guardians are also not owned by SEGA. Also, I don't know if SEGA would be OK with P.G.....

All things considered, I've always thought of S.K. as the type of villain that shows up from time to time, but not AS recurring, and these rare appearances could lead to some grand finale with the demon.

Speaking of Strange Klug, can we take a moment to appreciate that Klug's theme in 15th is pretty much a ''good guy'' version of Surge of the Crimson Scream:

Wow, who would have thought that Klug had such a kick-ass theme? Seriously, I think can hear some snippets of Strange Klug's theme.

BTW, wasn't this song ONLY in 15th Anniversary? Like, I'm pretty sure he got a whole new theme for 20th Anniversary, didn't he?

 

[warelander]

Almost everyone (Arle and Lemres being the only exceptions) got a new theme in 20th and I gotta say I that while I get why not more games do it I really love the idea of giving everyone their own themes, that play everytime you encounter them in any given story, it just adds an additional sense of identity to every encounter.

And then of course there's the vocal versions and I gotta say, while I found the game version of Sig's 20th Anni. theme to be only okay, I adore the vocal version:


And here's the Karaoke version:

 

[puyokid]

Almost everyone (Arle and Lemres being the only exceptions) got a new theme in 20th and I gotta say I that while I get why not more games do it I really love the idea of giving everyone their own themes, that play every time you encounter them in any given story, it just adds an additional sense of identity to every encounter.

Personally, I'd like to see character-specific themes be a thing for ALL Puyo games, but they're just exclusive to 15th and 20th, am I right?

And then of course there's the vocal versions and I gotta say, while I found the game version of Sig's 20th Anni. theme to be only okay, I adore the vocal version:


And here's the Karaoke version:

Can I just say that I LOVE Arle, Rulue, Schezo, Satan, Witch, and Sig's vocal tracks? To be fair, I haven't heard the others' vocal tracks, but I'll get to it eventually.

This being said, I hope everyone gets a vocal track soon. Despite the majority's opinion of (SEGA-era) Draco in Japanese these days, I'd actually like to see her get a vocal track. Honestly, it still sort of bugs me how she's currently the ONLY "major" Madou-era character who doesn't have a vocal track theme yet.

I'm also still somewhat surprised that Raffine and Risukuma still don't have vocal tracks despite them being ARS trio members.

 

[warelander]

I'm also still somewhat surprised that Raffine and Risukuma still don't have vocal tracks despite them being ARS trio members.

To be honest I always like it whenever they don't put any weight on that, because frankly, while it was cool when Fever 2 referenced the ARS trio concept I'm very tired of characters getting categorized like that.

I don't just mean the ARS and A Trio concepts either, these put the characters in very designated roles, but what I especially dislike is when the characters of the different eras (Madou/Fever/7) get seperated from each other, Chapter 6 from PPT being a great example of that, with the ''A girls'' almost exclusively encountering characters from their home eras (aside from Yu & Rei in Ringo's section), it makes the cast feel less like one big cast of characters and more like several different groups of people that rarely cross paths, which is especially bad for characters like Maguro and Risukuma, since most of the time they really only exist to be token friends for Ringo whenever Arle and Amitie aren't available, without any real place in the cast at large.

Once again I think Arle also suffers from it, back in 15th she instead of just finding a way back home, tried to find a way that allowed her to travel between her world and Primp, since she had grown so fond of the town and it's inhabitants, which isn't something you'd remember nowadays, especially with stuff like her 20th story where she only encounters Madou era characters.

Her being pretty much stuck in Primp was a subplot that lasted three games, during that time she became a part of the community there, as I mentioned before, with 15th filling in some blanks from the time between Fever 2 and 15th, where we learn that she regulary visited the magic school, became visibly closer with Amitie and Sig and more people that hadn't interacted with her before (like Klug and Ocean Prince) had some familiarity with her now, it actually gave the impression that she had been in that town for a while. Nowadays the series feels like it's regressing her back to just her Madou acquaintances and any of her history with the town apart from her relationships with Amitie, Sig, Ms. Accord and Lemres is a non-factor nowadays. Which is a massive shame, because that's a part of her character that's just gotten thrown out of the window.

....That was longer then it should have been.

 

[puyokid]

To be honest, I always like it whenever they don't put any weight on that, because frankly, while it was cool when Fever 2 referenced the ARS trio concept I'm very tired of characters getting categorized like that.

I don't just mean the ARS and A Trio concepts either, these put the characters in very designated roles, but what I especially dislike is when the characters of the different eras (Madou/Fever/7) get separated from each other, Chapter 6 from PPT being a great example of that, with the ''A girls'' almost exclusively encountering characters from their home eras (aside from Yu & Rei in Ringo's section), it makes the cast feel less like one big cast of characters and more like several different groups of people that rarely cross paths, which is especially bad for characters like Maguro and Risukuma, since most of the time they really only exist to be token friends for Ringo whenever Arle and Amitie aren't available, without any real place in the cast at large.

Yeah, I see what you're getting at here. It's something that I feel like Chronicles TRIED to remedy, but they still didn't get it down exactly. I mean, Risukuma and Maguro appear to talk to more than just Ringo in that game, but it's still nothing I'd consider "impressive". What's more, I feel like 20th actually had the potential to do what 15th did, and give more expansive relationships between the 3 eras and their characters, but it felt like things were more limited to the Madou-era and the Fever-era. What I'd like to see is more "unique" interactions, like Schezo/Ecolo, Rulue/Maguro, Draco/Maguro, Risukuma/Witch, Lemres/Witch, Witch/Feli, Sig/Draco, Suketoudara/Maguro, etc.

Once again I think Arle also suffers from it, back in 15th she instead of just finding a way back home, tried to find a way that allowed her to travel between her world and Primp, since she had grown so fond of the town and it's inhabitants, which isn't something you'd remember nowadays, especially with stuff like her 20th story where she only encounters Madou era characters.

Her being pretty much stuck in Primp was a subplot that lasted three games, during that time she became a part of the community there, as I mentioned before, with 15th filling in some blanks from the time between Fever 2 and 15th, where we learn that she regularly visited the magic school, became visibly closer with Amitie and Sig and more people that hadn't interacted with her before (like Klug and Ocean Prince) had some familiarity with her now, it actually gave the impression that she had been in that town for a while. Nowadays the series feels like it's regressing her back to just her Madou acquaintances and any of her history with the town apart from her relationships with Amitie, Sig, Ms. Accord and Lemres is a non-factor nowadays. Which is a massive shame, because that's a part of her character that's just gotten thrown out of the window.

Honestly, Arle's subplot of finding a way to teleport back to her dimension is something that I REALLY wish had stuck around. Specifically, the solution. It would have been a perfect (if admittedly ad storytelling) way to bring back Arle's world rather than lock it out the series' continuity.

Like you said, there's also the fact that Arle came to know more and more of Primp's citizens that we don't normally see her talk to, like Raffine, Klug, and even the Ocean Prince. SEGA doing away with most of those relationships feels like such a HUGE step back, that I'm not even sure what to say about it at this point.

 

[warelander]

What I'd like to see is more "unique" interactions, like Schezo/Ecolo, Rulue/Maguro, Draco/Maguro, Risukuma/Witch, Lemres/Witch, Witch/Feli, Sig/Draco, Suketoudara/Maguro, etc.

Thing is 20th does attempt to be like that at times, with combinations like Witch/Sig, Maguro/Rider or Feli/Ocean Prince and I do like those types of moments, but since there still are attempts at seperating the different eras it ends up feeling a lot more...fundamental and safe then 15th, Arle's story is the most extreme example, but Maguro's story also counts to a degree, since Ringo ends up twice as his opponent, making half of his encounters PP7 charas, which wouldn't even be possible without repeats.

Y'know, the more I think about it the more I realize why I appreciate Sig's 15th story as much as I do, since it covers essentially all bases of what I'd like to see from the series in terms of narrative and Sig in general:

-There's no seperation between eras, Arle,Suketoudara and Rulue make up 3 out of 8 encounters, which is a good balance.

-Amitie isn't even mentioned, instead Onion Pixy, Baldlanders, Ms. Accord, Lemres and Ocean Prince serve as his Fever era opponents.

I should stress that I don't hate or even dislike the Amitie/Sig dynamic, but I appreciate it when she's not stuck on him like a ball and chain, like she tends to be nowadays.

-His bug obsession isn't ignored, but it's also only present in some victory quotes and the ending cutscene. It's there, but it's not his main character trait,allowing him to be more dynamic, once again, good balance.

-We get to see some exploration of the Arle/Sig friendship and Sig's dedication to her as a friend is played in a very sincere way.

-The ecounters with Onion Pixy and Ocean Prince call back to Fever 2. Oh continuity how I love thee.

You get the idea, everything I always ask for it here and accounted for.

 

[puyokid]

Thing is 20th does attempt to be like that at times, with combinations like Witch/Sig, Maguro/Rider or Feli/Ocean Prince and I do like those types of moments, but since there still are attempts at separating the different eras it ends up feeling a lot more...fundamental and safe then 15th, Arle's story is the most extreme example, but Maguro's story also counts to a degree, since Ringo ends up twice as his opponent, making half of his encounters PP7 charas, which wouldn't even be possible without repeats.

This is what I'm talking about. It feels like 20th WAS trying to do what 15th did, but that game may have played things a little TOO safe in terms of character interaction. Honestly, I feel like there's something a bit.....irksome about things like Arle's story being comprised of nothing BUT Madou-era characters or Ringo serving as Maguro's opponent TWICE in his story (Also, my second complaint also applies to Satan in Arle's story, BTW).

If anything, I ESPECIALLY would like to see Risukuma and Maguro interact with the Madou-era cast. I feel that you could churn out some VERY interesting interactions between characters who (mostly) look like they came straight from a (J)RPG and characters who essentially hail from the Puyo series' interpretation of the "real world".

Y'know, the more I think about it the more I realize why I appreciate Sig's 15th story as much as I do, since it covers essentially all bases of what I'd like to see from the series in terms of narrative and Sig in general:

-There's no separation between eras, Arle, Suketoudara and Rulue make up 3 out of 8 encounters, which is a good balance.

-Amitie isn't even mentioned, instead Onion Pixy, Baldlanders, Ms. Accord, Lemres and Ocean Prince serve as his Fever era opponents.

I should stress that I don't hate or even dislike the Amitie/Sig dynamic, but I appreciate it when she's not stuck on him like a ball and chain, like she tends to be nowadays.

-His bug obsession isn't ignored, but it's also only present in some victory quotes and the ending cutscene. It's there, but it's not his main character trait, allowing him to be more dynamic, once again, good balance.

-We get to see some exploration of the Arle/Sig friendship and Sig's dedication to her as a friend is played in a very sincere way.

-The encounters with Onion Pixy and Ocean Prince call back to Fever 2. Oh continuity how I love thee.

You get the idea, everything I always ask for it here and accounted for.

Honestly, I'd like for a future game to give every other character the same amount of characterization that Sig got in 15th. ESPECIALLY the cast of PP7, as they may need it more than the other eras. I feel like this game (15th Anniversary) did Sig the greatest justice, possibly more than any other character (Well, maybe aside from Arle).

 

[warelander]

If anything, I ESPECIALLY would like to see Risukuma and Maguro interact with the Madou-era cast. I feel that you could churn out some VERY interesting interactions between characters who (mostly) look like they came straight from a (J)RPG and characters who essentially hail from the Puyo series' interpretation of the "real world".

Now that you are saying that I'm noticing that the PP7 cast coming from a more modern world never really get's any attention brought to it, which is kinda odd, you'd think that would be an obvious idea.

I feel like this game (15th Anniversary) did Sig the greatest justice, possibly more than any other character (Well, maybe aside from Arle).

That just goes into what I always say about Fever 2 and 15th doing a great job at making Sig a rather nuanced character and to be fair PP7, PPT and (for the most part) 20th are decent with the ways they write him as well, Chronicle is the only one that's super guilty about flanderizing his bug obsession to an extreme degree and it's not like I don't like this trait of his, but if you are going to make it a big point of his story then do something interesting with it, like Quest recently did, as you are aware, because that was actually really cool.

 

[puyokid]

Now that you are saying that, I'm noticing that the PP7 cast coming from a more modern world never really gets any attention brought to it, which is kinda odd, you'd think that would be an obvious idea.

EXACTLY! This is something I honestly can't believe SEGA HASN'T acknowledged about the PP7 cast yet, which is another thing that makes me feel like these guys are a bit TOO underdeveloped compared to the rest of the cast. Heck, I feel like an entire game could centered around this (outside of their introductory game of PP7 obviously). This being said, I hope SEGA bothers to do so in a future game.

Speaking of which, I'd like to repost a quote from an earlier post if you don't mind, as it pretty much summed up what I feel SEGA should do in the event that they ever DO acknowledge the fact that the cast of PP7 is from the "real world".

Also, maybe it's just me, but another reason that I want Suzuran to stay as it is for now is because I feel like there's some real potential in the idea of a future Puyo game's storyline focusing on the fact that the "real world" (a.k.a. Ringo's dimension) becomes exposed to the idea that not only does REAL magic exist (along with the mythical creatures and individuals that it usually brings with it such as Satan, Draco, Witch, Popoi, etc.), but also the fact that the multiverse theory is VERY much real in the Puyo/Madou series.

That just goes into what I always say about Fever 2 and 15th doing a great job at making Sig a rather nuanced character and to be fair PP7, PPT and (for the most part) 20th are decent with the ways they write him as well, Chronicle is the only one that's super guilty about flanderizing his bug obsession to an extreme degree and it's not like I don't like this trait of his, but if you are going to make it a big point of his story then do something interesting with it, like Quest recently did, as you are aware, because that was actually really cool.

Yeah, I have to agree here. If SEGA really wants to keep his bug obsession, they could probably do something interesting with it. Maybe make it pay off into something. Not sure what, but I'm sure SEGA can think of something.

Hey, I read that Tumblr post about Quest just last night. I love how Sig FINALLY gets to interact with Kodomo Dragon and Honey Bee even wanted to be his servant following Sig's unwitting rescue of her! This felt really 15th-levels of interaction, if you ask me.

BTW, there's a Tumblr post I'd like to show you. Basically, I think it mostly covers what we've been bothered by in terms of recent Puyo games' choice of characters...

http://jellipuddi.tumblr.com/post/164101384746/ultrafloweypowey-while-browsing-the-puyo-nexus

 

[warelander]

BTW, there's a Tumblr post I'd like to show you. Basically, I think it mostly covers what we've been bothered by in terms of recent Puyo games' choice of characters...

http://jellipuddi.tumblr.com/post/164101384746/ultrafloweypowey-while-browsing-the-puyo-nexus

While there are a number of things that I can't say I personally agree with, I will say that the part about how the loss of focus on them really caused a lot of Fever characters to just get stuck in a runt, with hinted developments just never happening, is spot on. It's part of why the Fever era getting shafted like it is annoys me greatly.

By the by, I remember that fan art of Sig as Ness? I browsing Twitter again recently and found something similar that I find really neat:

Sig dressed up as Stan Marsh from South Park, deliciously random and I just love how he looks.

 

[puyokid]

By the by, I remember that fan art of Sig as Ness? I browsing Twitter again recently and found something similar that I find really neat:

Sig dressed up as Stan Marsh from South Park, deliciously random and I just love how he looks.

Aw, he's adorable! Then again, Sig seems to be able to pull off a lot of these looks!

BTW, you're not going to believe this. I came across the Twitter account of at least 3 former Compile art employees!

https://twitter.com/ichi_usa/ - Did the art of the first 4 Puyo games. If you seen the art for Tsu and SUN, you'll probably know which artist this is.

https://twitter.com/uemyz/ - I....want to say that they did the art for the wonky-looking DiscStation Madou games (Final Exam, Daimadou, etc.)

https://twitter.com/sonchou_sawa - Apparently the chief artist of Madou's Big Kindergarten Kids if I'm getting this correctly. Also, did some artwork for...I want to say the last 2-3 years before Compile closed shop and they could (at the very least) promote Puyo Puyo material after SEGA got FULL developmental rights to the series in 2001.

Also, here's the pixiv account to at least three of them:

https://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=73405 - The one who's well-known for their art for Tsu and SUN.

https://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=3759 - Big Kindergarten Kids artist.

https://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=7376086 - pixiv account for the chief artist for Yo~n.

And here's at least one homepage:

http://www20.big.or.jp/~a-fun/ - the artist of the Compile Club comics

 

[warelander]

That's really cool, I actually saw some of the stuff on twier Twitter accounts around before, but didn't think it would be from them.

Also, I want to adress a thing you said that I neglected to respond to before:

I love how Sig FINALLY gets to interact with Kodomo Dragon and Honey Bee even wanted to be his servant following Sig's unwitting rescue of her! This felt really 15th-levels of interaction, if you ask me.

because of how much I agree with that sentiment, because all things considered Kodomo Dragon and Honey Bee are very much the perfect characters for Sig to meet and it really shows the kind of nice little scenarios that you can get when SEGA doesn't insist on that stupid seperation between the eras.

Speaking of Honey Bee, here's another nice piece that I found yesterday :

 

[puyokid]

Also, I want to address a thing you said that I neglected to respond to before:

because of how much I agree with that sentiment, because all things considered Kodomo Dragon and Honey Bee are very much the perfect characters for Sig to meet and it really shows the kind of nice little scenarios that you can get when SEGA doesn't insist on that stupid separation between the eras.

Exactly! This felt like such a quaint interaction between the three. Like I've said before, you don't know how much I've wanted Sig to meet those two especially. I also consider a bonus to the fact that he's interacting with what would essentially be referred to as "obscure Puyo/Madou characters" in this day and age. I hate to admit it, but the chances of us seeing K.D. and Honey Bee in a consloe game are pretty slim at the moment.

Speaking of Honey Bee, here's another nice piece that I found yesterday :

Aww, that's adorable! Honey Bee might want to be careful though, it looks like Sig intends to catch himself some bugs today...

 

[warelander]

I also wanna give some credit to PPT in some regards, because as I mentioned before I consider Chapter 9 my favorite one in the game, not just because it stars Schezo & Sig, but also because Schezo's interest in Sig's red hand is something that already had it's origin in 15th Anni. so the chapter is very much a continuation of a previously brought up idea.

Then there's also the Tetris charas who I have nothing but good things to say about, but there's two particular things that I especially appreciate about them and that I'd like to see more from the series in general :

-They are a pretty tight knit group, you really get the impression that the Tetra crew truly all know each other and everyone has their own place within the group's dynamic, even X, despite not really being part of the crew factors into it quite well.

-The dynamic between Ringo and T develops considerably over the course of the game and is given a fair amount of focus, much like Chapter 9 this is an example of the relationships between characters truly progressing, which is something I'm seriously longing to see more of.

That's pretty much the thing with the current Puyo games in terms of how they handle the cast, for all the things that I criticise or miss there are also always those things that they really, really get right, which to me, show what the series would be able to do, on a regular basis, with simply better direction.