Puyo Puyo

[Magma]

Yeah, I'm just teasing. I prefer to just be playful since this whole Q&A style of posting you've introduced puyokid just doesn't suit me as all it does is expose my boring opinions.

 

[puyokid]

She's said to be Kikimora's shadow, but don't ask me how she gained sentience, even in her debut she was just kinda there.

Ah, so she's one of THOSE kinds of characters, huh? Well, I'm not going to put too much stock into the whole thing, considering how the real Kikimora herself is already nothing more than a supporting character in the grand scheme of things, and even then, she doesn't even show up that often as it is.

On another note, I have been thinking for a bit, in regards to Puyo's storytelling and looking back I'm starting to see an even bigger reason why the current formula feels so stale to me, especially when looking at all the past stories back to back :

The first game had little to no story and extremely basic character interactions, even the ending makes fun of that, by saying that ''Puyo Hell stopped, for no real reason''. The manual details more plot, but none of it really shows up in game.

TSU's had more of a visible presence in most home ports (the arcade game really had no story) with Satan trying to impress Arle and the Masked Satan stick and cutscenes got more interesting, especially in the PSX/Saturn versions.

SUN was the first game to put spotlight on characters besides Arle and the encounters feel a bit more like they are part of a progressing adventure, especially with the world map between matches, it's also by far the goofiest plot in the series, a fact that the game embraces and celebrates to delightful lengths.

YON, was the first game to have an actual plot twist and a villain other than Satan, in the form of Doppelganger Arle, whose appearance carries a surprisingly melancholic atmosphere, giving the game a slightly more serious edge than usual.

BOX and Minna both follow the ''Satan wants Arle'' formula, but it's understandable in these cases, since BOX has a new RPG mode to present it and Minna was SEGA's first fully original self made entry in the series, so it's not hard to see why they would rely a bit on familiarity on their first attempt.

Fever brought a major shift, introducing Primp and a largely new cast, with that said many important elements of the Fever world weren't present yet and everyone was still much more one-dimensional, the plot not being very developed doesn't help.

Fever 2 picks up the slack by really building on Fever's foundation, introducing new crucial characters, building on elements that were already there (the demon in Klug's book) and including the library to add some much needed backstory to Primp and it's inhabitants. On top of that the characterization of everyone is far stronger this time around, along with a much more focused story, not only due to how the routes of all three main characters connect, but so do the optional conversations in town and the library materials, leading to a surprisingly nuanced story.

15th's story is actually extremely simple, but it makes up for it with it's strong focus on character building, especially with everyone getting their own campaign and the way it builds on previous elements, special mention goes to Oshare, whose sub-plot regarding the Memory of Chu in Fever 2 hinted at things from his past, which are elaborated on more in this game. This is also where the series began to slowly bring back Madou era characters.

PP7 has a travel around the world type of plot, it's also the first game to introduce Ecolo as the villain, as well as the A Trio concept, it's also where the focus slowly shifted away from the Fever cast, with Raffine and Sig getting tossed out of the story after a single chapter.

20th much like 15th gives everyone their own story and while some tie into the FInal Story they are mostly self contained mini stories, a lot of which do bring back the character building qualities of the previous anniversary game, with things like exploring Raffine's hidden insecurities in regards to her lack of magic power and actually giving Ecolo some much welcomed personality, this time around.

While TSU, BOX and Minna all do somewhat follow a formula it's done differently enough in each game for it to not be that noticeable, SUN is the first game to have a multiple character stories structure and Yon goes for a more involved plot. With Fever we had the more shallow narrative of the first game, which was expanded upon in every possible way, with the following two games.

I guess the thing I'm trying to say is that all the games felt rather unique in how they handled their stories, with the pre-Fever games slowly starting to have more of a plot, with some very unique flavors, like the very silly SUN or the slightly more serious and involved YON, while Fever onward put a ton of effort into establishing Primp and it's inhabitants, to a point where everyone had a very defined place in the town.

PP7 was the game that started the current era and introduced the current formula. 20th did have elements from said formula, which also includes a slight separation of the cast between the eras (again Arle's story), but it also played into enough of 15th's strengths to be satisfactory at the end of the day and while it was the game that started the constant Satan/Ecolo team ups, I think it can be excused on the grounds of it being the first time, it's not like anyone could guess that it would become a constant theme later on.

The Puyo side of PPT (outside of Chapter 9) is about as fundamental as you can get, with the A Trio in their typical roles, Satan and Ecolo once again playing part in the conflict (only this time as part of the solution) while everyone else's roles are very minor and major separation between the eras, the Tetris side is where the real meat of the story resides.

Chronicle doesn't really have a particularly big story, but with everyone being in one group it could have been like 15th, where the interactions and dynamics between the cast could carry the whole thing and at times it feels like the game tries to be like that, but at the end of the day Arle, Amitie, Ringo, Satan and Ecolo still hijack the game, with most of the cast spending much of the game silent,even Ally doesn't get to do much and Rafisol, despite being the finally boss of the game, is ultimately just the result of Ecolo's actions, unlike someone like Strange Klug, who has a backstory and place in the history of his world that details who he is and why he exists in the form that we know him as, instead of him just being treated like an easy conflict plot device.

The thing is that when you get down to it, the stories of PPT's Puyo side and Chronicle might be different, but because of how inconsequential everything that doesn't involve those particular 5 characters really is, they end up feeling repetitive and stale, which is especially noticeable in Chronicle, where Ally contributes very little and Rafisol even existing is just an extension of Ecolo messing things up again, it doesn't help that unlike in 20th or even 7, the games rarely touch on plot elements from past games.

At the end of the day I just hope the series moves on from the current format soon, because it just comes off as if the series is limiting itself, Pre-Fever had it's formulaic elements but never felt like it was downplaying old or new characters/plot points, just for the sake of keeping said elements in the spotlight.

Who knows really, with Chronicle bringing back more Madou-era characters again I'm holding out hope that Doppelganger Arle will get her turn one of these days, because she's a character that really deserves to be explored more.

Wow, this is really well-thought out! These days, the series' formula has gotten REAL stale with the inclusion of the 'A Trio' concept after 20th. I've sort of given my stance on PP7. Not the worst game ever, but it certainly had potential to be better than what we ended up getting. I ESPECIALLY agree with you on the issues that Chronicles seems to have with character interaction and the fact that Ally and Rafisol (who DEBUTED in this game, BTW) didn't really have anything to make them distinctively stand out from the usual cast. It also REALLY irked me how Ally was pushed aside in favor of the "main 5" (Arle, Amitie, Ringo, Satan, and Ecolo) and everyone else just didn't say much.

My point is, I agree with you that SEGA is REALLY limiting themselves on the series' direction. Something I hope they stop doing real soon. As I've said before, I hold the series in high regard (for a puzzle game) because it feels like they could more than what we're seeing so far.

This being said, if you don't mind my asking...what do you think? Compile or SEGA?

Yeah, I'm just teasing. I prefer to just be playful since this whole Q&A style of posting you've introduced puyokid just doesn't suit me as all it does is expose my boring opinions.

Well, there goes my smile...

 

[Magma]

Oh don't feel bad, warelander has had a lot to say and you guys have had great conversations, it's not like I had much to say in this thread before anyway.

 

[warelander]

I've sort of given my stance on PP7. Not the worst game ever, but it certainly had potential to be better than what we ended up getting

Yah know I rag on PP7's story a lot, since I do find it honest to god bad, but I will give it credit for a few things, particulary that this game actually gives Ringo, Arle, Satan and Ecolo (Amitie is the only forced one) all solid grounding to be major players in the story and I will also defend Ringo in PPT, since her and T's personalities do mesh very well, so I understand her being chosen to be the protagonist of the Puyo site, it's the other ''big 4'' and Chronicle where it all felt incredibly arbitrary and like they are just mains because they have to be, rather then because the story does something noteworthy with them as characters, which is especially appearent with Amitie, since she doesn't even have a villain to play off of.

This being said, if you don't mind my asking...what do you think? Compile or SEGA?

You mean in terms of story? In that case I give SEGA the upper hand, problems with the current direction notwithstanding Fever 2, 15th and the Tetris half of PPT (along with YON) were narrative high points of the series in my eyes and if Minna is any indication SEGA can do the Compile routine complete with a more savage Arle, well too, I mean this, goes way beyond sick burn.

 

[puyokid]

Oh don't feel bad, warelander has had a lot to say and you guys have had great conversations, it's not like I had much to say in this thread before anyway.

Oh, well...OK. I mean, I was hoping you weren't feeling left out or anything.

Yah know I rag on PP7's story a lot, since I do find it honest to god bad, but I will give it credit for a few things, particularly that this game actually gives Ringo, Arle, Satan and Ecolo (Amitie is the only forced one) all solid grounding to be major players in the story and I will also defend Ringo in PPT, since her and T's personalities do mesh very well, so I understand her being chosen to be the protagonist of the Puyo side, it's the other ''big 4'' and Chronicle where it all felt incredibly arbitrary and like they are just mains because they have to be, rather then because the story does something noteworthy with them as characters, which is especially apparent with Amitie, since she doesn't even have a villain to play off of.

So I'm not the only one who felt like Amitie's inclusion felt forced in PP7? Heck, as much as it sort of hurts me to say this (as I LOVE Amitie) I feel like her involvement in just about every recent Puyo game (with the exception of 20th Anniversary) felt...forced, honestly.

As I've said before, if I had my way, Amitie and Suketoudara would NOT be traveling with Ringo in PP7. Risukuma and Maguro would be with her instead (Like they SHOULD have been in the first place, IMO.)

As for Ringo, I feel like out of the 'A' trio, she had the most "credentials" to be considered its main protagonist out of them. Especially considering how that game wasn't really "magic-focused" as much as it was technology-focused (To some extent). Thus resulting in Suzuran being the main setting for PPT, due to it essentially being the Puyo series' interpretation of the 'real (modern) world'.

Amitie's lack of a actual villain in PRmi is what makes me want S.K. back all the more. Yes, I know he's really more of Sig's enemy, but there's nothing stopping him from considering her and Raffine a threat, right?

As for Chronicles, I feel like that game REALLY was trying to do SOMETHING with its characters past the usual 6 (the 'A' Trio, Carbuncle, Satan, and Ecolo), but it still fell flat considering things like Ally playing less of a role once Amitie and Ringo join the party, Rafisol not really being her "own entity", so to speak. and the characters not having much to do in the grand scheme of things. I mean, there were even some missed opportunities like Schezo and Lagnus NEVER interact in the game as far as I know, Draco and Rider's "sisterly relationship" doesn't feel...OK, to be fair, at least I've seen 15th's translation as to how Satan sees the whole deal, but I've never seen a translation on Draco's opinion of Rider's desire to spend time with her.

You mean in terms of story? In that case I give SEGA the upper hand, problems with the current direction notwithstanding Fever 2, 15th and the Tetris half of PPT (along with YON) were narrative high points of the series in my eyes and if Minna is any indication SEGA can do the Compile routine complete with a more savage Arle, well too, I mean this, goes way beyond sick burn.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant in most (if not, ALL) aspects. Story, character handling, character interaction, character usage, settings, etc. But I'll take the blame for not being too specific on that front.

That being said, I'm glad you still responded, and with a cutscene from Minna no less, as THAT'S the incarnation of Arle I'd like to see return to the series, ESPECIALLY to help her feel more distinct from Amitie's happy-go-lucky personality , and Ringo's (mostly) no-nonsense demeanor.

Personally, I feel like PPT's English dub (oddly enough) was trying to recapture that aspect of Arle, but since she wasn't THE big focus (unlike Ringo and Tee), they probably felt like they didn't need to try THAT hard. BTW, I know that Yo~n was created when SEGA held partial rights to the series, but I just want to say that, personally? I still consider that game a Compile game through and through. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're in the wrong or anything, I just felt like pointing it out, is all.

 

[warelander]

Amitie's lack of a actual villain in PRmi is what makes me want S.K. back all the more. Yes, I know he's really more of Sig's enemy, but there's nothing stopping him from considering her and Raffine a threat, right?

While there is nothing that inherently speaks against it I'm not a a fan of the idea of Strange Klug being used as a villain for Amitie, I always liked the twist that for once it's someone other then the ''A girl'' that has the connection to the main villain, so I'd rather not have them build one up.

BTW, I know that Yo~n was created when SEGA held partial rights to the series, but I just want to say that, personally? I still consider that game a Compile game through and through. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're in the wrong or anything, I just felt like pointing it out, is all.

Oh of course it's a Compile game, it just didn't feel right to talk about high points of storytelling in Puyo without mentioning it.

If we are talking in general then I'd still say SEGA, I mentioned before that I have a particular attachment to the Fever trilogy (I do consider 15th to be a part of the series) above all else and just generally speaking I do like the Compile site of things, I just think that all of it could be done in SEGA's games as well, if anything I'd actually love to see their take on things like the Schezo/Lagnus rivalry or Doppelganger Arle, because I fully believe they could to it really well.

Also keep in mind that I'm not including Madou for the Compile site, becuase that would be cheating.

 

[puyokid]

While there is nothing that inherently speaks against it I'm not a a fan of the idea of Strange Klug being used as a villain for Amitie, I always liked the twist that for once it's someone other than the ''A girl'' that has the connection to the main villain, so I'd rather not have them build one up.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. It's just that I feel like Amitie's dimension SHOULD have something to not make her feel forced into the plot/the "tagalong kid" character. I mean, it doesn't look like Popoi is going to be used a villain in that manner anymore, so...

Oh of course it's a Compile game, it just didn't feel right to talk about high points of storytelling in Puyo without mentioning it.

Oh, OK. I was just a bit confused is all.

If we are talking in general then I'd still say SEGA, I mentioned before that I have a particular attachment to the Fever trilogy (I do consider 15th to be a part of the series) above all else and just generally speaking I do like the Compile side of things, I just think that all of it could be done in SEGA's games as well, if anything I'd actually love to see their take on things like the Schezo/Lagnus rivalry or Doppelganger Arle, because I fully believe they could to it really well.

Ah, I see. You know, it's funny you mention it, because I'm a little surprised that Chronicles doesn't seem to bring up ANY interaction between Schezo and Lagnus. Well, as far as I know at least.

As for Doppel. Arle, I hope SEGA still decides to give her some character development despite Rafisol's conception. I'm a little worried that she might have taken up all of what Compile probably would have done with her...

Still, as we both agree, SEGA could do SO much more with the Puyo series if they'd just get out of their comfort zone a bit. I mean, it's not THAT unheard of for puzzle games to take a more deeper tone.

BTW, I may as well mention that I also consider Fever 1, Fever 2, and 15th Anniversary as a trilogy as well.

Also keep in mind that I'm not including Madou for the Compile site, becuase that would be cheating.

Uh...I'm sorry. Could you maybe clarify this last part a bit for me?

 

[warelander]

Yeah, I get what you're saying. It's just that I feel like Amitie's dimension SHOULD have something to not make her feel forced into the plot/the "tagalong kid" character. I mean, it doesn't look like Popoi is going to be used a villain in that manner anymore, so...

Simply don't have her as a protagonist, if there is no natural way to put her into that spotlight, Arle wasn't a main character in the Fever games, since there just wasn't a bigger place for her in the stories, so she simply took a backseat to the then current protagonist trio, after so many years it really wouldn't hurt Amitie to take a step back.

As for Doppel. Arle, I hope SEGA still decides to give her some character development despite Rafisol's conception. I'm a little worried that she might have taken up all of what Compile probably would have done with her...

I'm not too worried about that, Raf's complete lack of interaction with anyone but the usual 6 and Ally already leaves a big gap that Doppel could easily take advantage of, that alone gives you plenty material that Chronicle completely ignored for Rafisol and would on it's own already be enough to stand out.

Uh...I'm sorry. Could you maybe clarify this last part a bit for me?

The Madou series allowed Compile to do a number of things, like delving major events of the first ARS trio's pasts, something we don't really see with SEGA which would be a point in Compile's favor, but with SEGA not even owning Madou it just feels a bit unfair to use Madou in such a comparison, since SEGA doesn't even have the means to compare.

 

[puyokid]

Simply don't have her as a protagonist, if there is no natural way to put her into that spotlight, Arle wasn't a main character in the Fever games, since there just wasn't a bigger place for her in the stories, so she simply took a backseat to the then current protagonist trio, after so many years it really wouldn't hurt Amitie to take a step back.

Yeah. Don't get me wrong, I hate to do something like that to Amitie (especially considering how much I love her), but recent Puyo games just don't seem to have a place for her. I mean, the ONLY one I can think of that DID was MAYBE 20th. But even then, Ringo (And the rest of the cast of PP7 by extension) felt more like the main focus of that game than either Amitie or even Arle and Carbuncle for that matter. At least Ringo DEFINITELY had Puyo Tetris, and Arle recently had Puyo Chronicles.

Still, I guess I could still find SOME solace in the fact that Amitie WOULDN'T be outright removed as a playable character. Heck, it would probably pretty much be the exact same thing that SEGA had done with Arle and Carbuncle in Fever 1 and Fever 2.

I'm not too worried about that. Raf's complete lack of interaction with anyone but the usual 6 and Ally already leaves a big gap that Doppel could easily take advantage of, that alone gives you plenty material that Chronicle completely ignored for Rafisol and would on it's own already be enough to stand out.

Actually, I've been thinking about that and I believe that you have a pretty good point there. I mean, I've always had the headcanon that Doppel. Arle would LOVE to have REAL friends. That being said, she's has a hard time being as...learning how to tolerate of the rest of the cast's unique quirks like Arle has. I also imagine that everyone (outside of people like Arle, Carbuncle, Amitie, and Sig) would be somewhat "wary" of Doppel, referring to her the "scary Arle", "mean mage", etc. The Madou-era cast would especially not be too favorable of her. Heck, even the likes of people like Satan, Rulue, Schezo, Raffine, Feli, etc. would be somewhat unnerved by her not being all that intimated by them.

The Madou series allowed Compile to do a number of things, like delving major events of the Madou-era ARS trio's pasts, something we don't really see with SEGA which would be a point in Compile's favor, but with SEGA not even owning Madou it just feels a bit unfair to use Madou in such a comparison, since SEGA doesn't even have the means to compare.

Oh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up! And you have a point. SEGA just doesn't have what it takes to be compared to Compile in that sense.

 

[warelander]

Actually, I've been thinking about that and I believe that you have a pretty good point there. I mean, I've always had the headcanon that Doppel. Arle would LOVE to have REAL friends. That being said, she's has a hard time being as...learning how to tolerate of the rest of the cast's unique quirks like Arle has. I also imagine that everyone (outside of people like Arle, Carbuncle, Amitie, and Sig) would be somewhat "wary" of Doppel, referring to her the "scary Arle", "mean mage", etc. The Madou-era cast would especially not be too favorable of her. Heck, even the likes of people like Satan, Rulue, Schezo, Raffine, Feli, etc. would be somewhat unnerved by her not being all that intimated by them.

Considering how little we truly know about Doppel this may very well be the case, I mean wanting to replace Arle does suggest her wanting the same life as her, relationships and all and her lines in Quest do suggest that she isn't inherently hostile to anyone other then the original Arle.

Coincidentally my Sig/Doppel fic from back then does delve into that idea, with Doppel genuinely wanting Sig as her friend, but using trickery to try and get her way and needing to be assured that she can archive her desire for companionship by just being her own person, even if it means giving up her current identity and crafting a new one from the ground up. In a lot of ways I could see them have a similar dynamic in canon as well, obviously it would take longer for her to open up to the idea of changing herself and should include more characters, but I can easily see Sig as someone who would quickly come around to be a friend to her, to a point where he could serve as a morality pet (to use some TV Tropes terms here) for Doppel.

I dunno, just generally speaking it's hard to say what direction SEGA would take with Doppel, if they were to give her a big appearence, but I'd just like to see at least an attempt, I already mentioned the rather somber tone that her appearence in YON brings along is so unlike anything else that we have ever seen in Puyo Puyo and on it's own already makes her fascinating and it really makes me want to know more about her.

 

[puyokid]

Considering how little we truly know about Doppel this may very well be the case, I mean wanting to replace Arle does suggest her wanting the same life as her, relationships and all and her lines in Quest do suggest that she isn't inherently hostile to anyone other then the original Arle.

You know, if it wasn't for Puyo Quest, I wouldn't be too clear on D. Arle's goals, if I'm being honest.

I don't know what it is, but Puyo Puyo~n felt so..."ambiguous" on what exactly Doppel. Arle's goals were. Even her plans of getting rid of Arle felt somewhat odd to me. Like, the game made things feel real hazy in terms of her endgoals.

Coincidentally, my Sig/Doppel fic from back then does delve into that idea, with Doppel genuinely wanting Sig as her friend, but using trickery to try and get her way and needing to be assured that she can archive her desire for companionship by just being her own person, even if it means giving up her current identity and crafting a new one from the ground up. In a lot of ways I could see them have a similar dynamic in canon as well, obviously it would take longer for her to open up to the idea of changing herself and should include more characters, but I can easily see Sig as someone who would quickly come around to be a friend to her, to a point where he could serve as a morality pet (to use some TV Tropes terms here) for Doppel.

Honestly, this is something I'd like to see. They could pretty much give Doppel an entire character arc over the course of the games, focusing on her gradually gaining the favor of the entire cast over time and even become her own person. Personally, I can see people like Sig AND Rider (and even Amitie, after Doppel gets over her initial disdain for her air-headed nature) become "morality pets" for Doppel.

Still, I'm not sure what she could do to gain the favor of the rest of the cast. At worst, I see the Fever-era and PP7 casts initially (unwittingly) confusing her Arle (possibly with the exception of those like Ms. Accord, Popoi, Lemres, Feli, Akuma, etc.) which works her nerves and/or they all simply stay away from her as she looks VERY intimidating. As for the Madou-era cast, I'm REALLY stumped, as she DID brainwash Satan, kidnap Carbuncle, attack Arle, Draco, Seriri, Witch, and Chico, and pretty much tricked a number of Madou-era characters (Rulue, Minotauros, Kikimora, Skeleton-T) into doing her bidding (using Satan as a mouthpiece).

I dunno, just generally speaking it's hard to say what direction SEGA would take with Doppel, if they were to give her a big appearance, but I'd just like to see at least an attempt, I already mentioned the rather somber tone that her appearance in YON brings along is so unlike anything else that we have ever seen in Puyo Puyo and on it's own already makes her fascinating and it really makes me want to know more about her.

I know what you mean. If anything, this is what makes Doppelganger Arle one of my favorite characters in the Puyo/Madou franchise to this day. There's so much you could explore with her (possibly even MORE than characters like the A.R.S. trios) and if done right, she could be one of the most memorable characters in the series. From I what I've come across in regards to Rafisol, it seems like she's basically what Compile (hopefully) would have done with Doppel, had they not lost development rights to the series. The only difference being that she doesn't really interact with anyone much outside of the 'A' Trio, Ally, and Carbuncle (as far as I know, at least). A mistake that I hope isn't done with Doppel.

 

[warelander]

I don't know what it is, but Puyo Puyo~n felt so..."ambiguous" on what exactly Doppel. Arle's goals were. Even her plans of getting rid of Arle felt somewhat odd to me. Like, the game made things feel real hazy in terms of her endgoals.

That's in large part because due to Doppel's presence in the game being a twist we don't get to see her a lot, which leaves little time to devote to exposition on her motives.

Honestly, this is something I'd like to see. They could pretty much give Doppel an entire character arc over the course of the games, focusing on her gradually gaining the favor of the entire cast over time and even become her own person. Personally, I can see people like Sig AND Rider (and even Amitie, after Doppel gets over her initial disdain for her air-headed nature) become "morality pets" for Doppel.

True, I just always saw Sig as a particulary good candidate because favorite crack ship there a number of additional things that their dynamic could include. I can imagine that Doppel would be able to sense Sig's dormant demon powers and perhaps look at him as useful in case things go wrong, until she starts to largely abandon her more ruthless ways, as she starts to get genuinely attached to him and by extention others (like the ones you mentioned), Sig not letting his anomalies determine anything about him as a person could also be rather inspirational to her in trying to build herself a new life.

Still, I'm not sure what she could do to gain the favor of the rest of the cast. At worst, I see the Fever-era and PP7 casts initially (unwittingly) confusing her Arle (possibly with the exception of those like Ms. Accord, Popoi, Lemres, Feli, Akuma, etc.) which works her nerves and/or they all simply stay away from her as she looks VERY intimidating. As for the Madou-era cast, I'm REALLY stumped, as she DID brainwash Satan, kidnap Carbuncle, attack Arle, Draco, Seriri, Witch, and Chico, and pretty much tricked a number of Madou-era characters (Rulue, Minotauros, Kikimora, Skeleton-T) into doing her bidding (using Satan as a mouthpiece).

I don't think most of them would be that hard to sway around, even if they are going to be sceptical, Rulue and Arle strike me as the biggest obstacles, Rulue obviously because of what Doppel did with Satan and Arle since she was the one she wanted to replace, but truth to be told Arle is an extremely forgiving person, so while it would take time and perhaps some big selfess and heroic act on Doppel's part to convince Arle, I can see her coming around eventually.

From I what I've come across in regards to Rafisol, it seems like she's basically what Compile (hopefully) would have done with Doppel, had they not lost development rights to the series. The only difference being that she doesn't really interact with anyone much outside of the 'A' Trio, Ally, and Carbuncle (as far as I know, at least). A mistake that I hope isn't done with Doppel.

It's similar to what I always imagined, but interactions with the extended cast and her past history with Arle would be enough to make a difference.

 

[puyokid]

That's in large part because due to Doppel's presence in the game being a twist we don't get to see her a lot, which leaves little time to devote to exposition on her motives.

Yeah, I have to give you that one. This being said, I have to admit that I rather DID enjoy the "shocking twist" value that D. Arle brought to Yo~n, personally.

True, I just always saw Sig as a particularly good candidate because favorite crack ship there a number of additional things that their dynamic could include. I can imagine that Doppel would be able to sense Sig's dormant demon powers and perhaps look at him as useful in case things go wrong, until she starts to largely abandon her more ruthless ways, as she starts to get genuinely attached to him and by extension others (like the ones you mentioned), Sig not letting his anomalies determine anything about him as a person could also be rather inspirational to her in trying to build herself a new life.

Wow, that's a very interesting concept there! I can also see this being the case as well. As for people like Amitie, Rider, and Tarutaru, they (along with Sig) would (for the most part) be used by Doppel as "tools" to get her way in case things do go south, eventually she'd start to realize that they truly care for her as a genuine friend, resulting in her gradually losing her dark and brooding nature. Honestly, she'd end up doing what Arle more or less did during Fever 1 to 15th, hanging with the Primp Magic Academy kids.

I also want to detail that she'd sort of hint to them that she's done a number of people wrong (Arle, Satan, Carbuncle, etc.), with them convincing her that EVERYONE deserves a second chance, which would lead into her requesting forgiveness from the entire Madou-era cast, and maybe even create a new life for herself outside of Arle's shadow along the way.

I don't think most of them would be that hard to sway around, even if they are going to be skeptical. Rulue and Arle strike me as the biggest obstacles, Rulue obviously because of what Doppel did with Satan and Arle since she was the one she wanted to replace, but truth to be told Arle is an extremely forgiving person, so while it would take time and perhaps some big selfless and heroic act on Doppel's part to convince Arle, I can see her coming around eventually.

Yeah, this seems about right. Arle IS known to be an EXTREMELY forgiving person, so I can see her writing off the whole incident off as a simple bad day as long as Doppel promised to never do such a thing ever again. Heck, she'd probably help her find her own identity along with the others for that matter.

As for Rulue (who was aware that Satan was acting off, but didn't know someone (Doppel) was behind it), I imagine that the moment she gets word that Doppel did such a thing to Satan, she'd instantly hunt her down. This being said, I can't even think of a way for Rulue to forgive Doppel for her actions.

As for Satan, well...do I even NEED to say more? It'd be a similar situation with Rulue, but MUCH worse. I mean, Doppel. Arle possessed him, used his body as a mouthpiece, his powers to build an entire circus, kidnap Carbuncle (In Yo~n, he states that he would NEVER do this consciously/willingly), AND kill Arle (the girl of his dreams). Knowing how petty Satan can get at times over little things, I don't even want to know how hard he would be for Doppel to deal with.

BTW, I can also see Draco, Seriri, Witch, and Chico being a teensy-weensy bit tricky to sway, considering how she got Satan to block them from saving Arle from getting hurt (or even killed, considering the circumstances).

It's similar to what I always imagined, but interactions with the extended cast and her past history with Arle would be enough to make a difference.

Really? Well, I guess you have a point there. Though, now that I bring it up, I wonder what the cast of PP7 would think of Doppel. Arle...?

BTW, look at these!

http://marisexmas.tumblr.com/post/164694156874/sig-tokkun-board-story-2 - Looks like I can another to the list of Sig's admirers...
http://marisexmas.tumblr.com/post/164698096204/klug-tokkun-board-story-2 - BEAUTIFUL callback to Fever 2 here!

https://puyopuyoquest.sega-net.com/news/170827_39995.html - Klug's FINALLY going to realize his dream! Never thought I'd see it happen in any way, shape, or form considering Puyo Puyo's recent "stance" on character development these days.

 

[puyokid]

That's in large part because due to Doppel's presence in the game being a twist we don't get to see her a lot, which leaves little time to devote to exposition on her motives.

Yeah, I have to give you that one. This being said, I have to admit that I rather DID enjoy the "shocking twist" value that D. Arle brought to Yo~n, personally.

True, I just always saw Sig as a particularly good candidate because favorite crack ship there a number of additional things that their dynamic could include. I can imagine that Doppel would be able to sense Sig's dormant demon powers and perhaps look at him as useful in case things go wrong, until she starts to largely abandon her more ruthless ways, as she starts to get genuinely attached to him and by extension others (like the ones you mentioned), Sig not letting his anomalies determine anything about him as a person could also be rather inspirational to her in trying to build herself a new life.

Wow, that's a very interesting concept there! I can also see this being the case as well. As for people like Amitie, Rider, and Tarutaru, they (along with Sig) would (for the most part) be used by Doppel as "tools" to get her way in case things do go south, eventually she'd start to realize that they truly care for her as a genuine friend, resulting in her gradually losing her dark and brooding nature. Honestly, she'd end up doing what Arle more or less did during Fever 1 to 15th, hanging with the Primp Magic Academy kids.

I also want to detail that she'd sort of hint to them that she's done a number of people wrong (Arle, Satan, Carbuncle, etc.), with them convincing her that EVERYONE deserves a second chance, which would lead into her requesting forgiveness from the entire Madou-era cast, and maybe even create a new life for herself outside of Arle's shadow along the way.

I don't think most of them would be that hard to sway around, even if they are going to be skeptical. Rulue and Arle strike me as the biggest obstacles, Rulue obviously because of what Doppel did with Satan and Arle since she was the one she wanted to replace, but truth to be told Arle is an extremely forgiving person, so while it would take time and perhaps some big selfless and heroic act on Doppel's part to convince Arle, I can see her coming around eventually.

Yeah, this seems about right. Arle IS known to be an EXTREMELY forgiving person, so I can see her writing off the whole incident off as a simple bad day as long as Doppel promised to never do such a thing ever again. Heck, she'd probably help her find her own identity along with the others for that matter.

As for Rulue (who was aware that Satan was acting off, but didn't know someone (Doppel) was behind it), I imagine that the moment she gets word that Doppel did such a thing to Satan, she'd instantly hunt her down. This being said, I can't even think of a way for Rulue to forgive Doppel for her actions.

As for Satan, well...do I even NEED to say more? It'd be a similar situation with Rulue, but MUCH worse. I mean, Doppel. Arle possessed him, used his body as a mouthpiece, his powers to build an entire circus, kidnap Carbuncle (In Yo~n, he states that he would NEVER do this consciously/willingly), AND kill Arle (the girl of his dreams). Knowing how petty Satan can get at times over little things, I don't even want to know how hard he would be for Doppel to deal with.

BTW, I can also see Draco, Seriri, Witch, and Chico being a teensy-weensy bit tricky to sway, considering how she got Satan to block them from saving Arle from getting hurt (or even killed, considering the circumstances).

It's similar to what I always imagined, but interactions with the extended cast and her past history with Arle would be enough to make a difference.

Really? Well, I guess you have a point there. Though, now that I bring it up, I wonder what the cast of PP7 would think of Doppel. Arle...?

BTW, look at these!

http://marisexmas.tumblr.com/post/164694156874/sig-tokkun-board-story-2 - Looks like I can another to the list of Sig's admirers...
http://marisexmas.tumblr.com/post/164698096204/klug-tokkun-board-story-2 - BEAUTIFUL callback to Fever 2 here!

https://puyopuyoquest.sega-net.com/news/170827_39995.html - Klug's FINALLY going to realize his dream! Never thought I'd see it happen in any way, shape, or form considering Puyo Puyo's recent "stance" on character development these days.

 

[warelander]

Honestly, she'd end up doing what Arle more or less did during Fever 1 to 15th, hanging with the Primp Magic Academy kids.

I like that comparison, generally speaking I always found it to be a shame that later game never did much to follow up on that, so it would be something if Doppel ended up filling the role.

As for Satan, well...do I even NEED to say more? It'd be a similar situation with Rulue, but MUCH worse. I mean, Doppel. Arle possessed him, used his body as a mouthpiece, his powers to build an entire circus, kidnap Carbuncle (In Yo~n, he states that he would NEVER do this consciously/willingly), AND kill Arle (the girl of his dreams). Knowing how petty Satan can get at times over little things, I don't even want to know how hard he would be for Doppel to deal with.

True, I guess Satan would be another hard one to turn around on his views on Doppel and honestly I'd say that's the closest thing this kind of story should have as an antagonist.

BTW, look at these!

http://marisexmas.tumblr.com/post/164694156874/sig-tokkun-board-story-2 - Looks like I can another to the list of Sig's admirers...

Dude, I swear SEGA is spying on me to see what characters I want to see Sig with in these manzai, I mean Kodomo Dragon and Honey Bee were already big examples, but Jan!? Not sure if I mentioned this before, but Sig/Jan was the first crack pairing I ever thought of and I'm still fond of it now, but never in my life did I expect them to actually meet and interact in canon! There isn't enough OMG in the world to describe how amazed and stupidly happy I am about this.

http://marisexmas.tumblr.com/post/164698096204/klug-tokkun-board-story-2 - BEAUTIFUL callback to Fever 2 here!

Huh, Satan is into that kind of literature...

https://puyopuyoquest.sega-net.com/news/170827_39995.html - Klug's FINALLY going to realize his dream! Never thought I'd see it happen in any way, shape, or form considering Puyo Puyo's recent "stance" on character development these days.

He's come far indeed and hey, that hat suits him quite well.

 

[puyokid]

I like that comparison, generally speaking I always found it to be a shame that later games never did much to follow up on that, so it would be something if Doppel ended up filling the role.

Also, considering how Arle was never seen hanging out with them (on-screen), Doppel really WOULD be a good replacement for this concept, wouldn't she?

True, I guess Satan would be another hard one to turn around on his views on Doppel and honestly I'd say that's the closest thing this kind of story should have as an antagonist.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like for Satan (and Rulue) to eventually forgive Doppel for her "transgressions", but I just feel that it'd be more believable to have them take MUCH longer to come around. This being said, I see the whole thing going one of two ways:

1. I feel like Satan would actually come around first, with Rulue simply going along with whatever he feels is the best course of action. Knowing her though, she'd probably still make sure to keep an very close eye on her in the event that she tried any funny business.

2. RULUE would come around first, and try to convince Satan that she's not inherently a bad girl. Satan would still take quite a bit of convincing, still being nervous about how Doppel's mind control was MUCH stronger than he would have anticipated. Even with ARLE vouching for Doppel, he'd still be wary, but eventually he'd give in (for Arle's sake, if nothing else).

Dude, I swear SEGA is spying on me to see what characters I want to see Sig with in these manzai, I mean Kodomo Dragon and Honey Bee were already big examples, but Jan!? Not sure if I mentioned this before, but Sig/Jan was the first crack pairing I ever thought of and I'm still fond of it now, but never in my life did I expect them to actually meet and interact in canon! There isn't enough OMG in the world to describe how amazed and stupidly happy I am about this.

Same here!! Honestly, after what you said, I feel less embarrassed to say that I was beyond excited to see JAN of all people interact with Sig. Not only that, but it looks like Sig has ANOTHER canon admirer to add to his little "harem". I never brought it up before, but Jan was one of the many female Puyo/Madou characters I always imagined would have a thing for him, as well characters like Succubus (Speaking of which, I'm a bit surprised there's no fanart of Sig x Succubus by now), Water Elemental, etc.

Huh, Satan is into that kind of literature...

Klug - "Gee, Satan....I didn't know you were into THAT kind of literature..."

Satan - "Give me that! That's the wrong book!! Here!"

What's more, when Klug picks up the book that Satan dropped in his hurry to get out of the library, the original scenario from Fever 2 with Klug is even recreated with Raffine instead of Amitie when she sees him with Satan's book in this manzai!

He's come far indeed and hey, that hat suits him quite well.

Definitely! Personally, I'm actually quite happy for Klug. All his hopes and dreams of being just like Lemres FINALLY came true! Like I said earlier, considering Puyo Puyo's recent "stance" on character development, Klug was one of those characters that I thought would always have his character development somewhat "stunted" due to SEGA seemingly dropping the lore and character development of the Fever-era cast.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Lemres was more than proud of him for finally surpassing his limits! At the same time, I'm sure that Feli must be feeling nothing but contempt for him right now...

 

[warelander]

Also, considering how Arle was never seen hanging out with them (on-screen), Doppel really WOULD be a good replacement for this concept, wouldn't she?

Pretty much that, yeah.

Same here!! Honestly, after what you said, I feel less embarrassed to say that I was beyond excited to see JAN of all people interact with Sig. Not only that, but it looks like Sig has ANOTHER canon admirer to add to his little "harem". I never brought it up before, but Jan was one of the many female Puyo/Madou characters I always imagined would have a thing for him,

What's also notable is that Jan's main way of attacking involves enlarging her hand, so her being smitten with Sig's arm and hopefully by extention also just Sig in general, is actually very fitting for her, that's an angle that I never even considered beforehand.

(Speaking of which, I'm a bit surprised there's no fanart of Sig x Succubus by now)

I'm sure there is some somewhere out there, I mean look at what I found yesterday:

Yes, Sig/Runelord, if something as out there as this can be a thing and I thought I was being creative with Sig/Doppel then I'm sure I will be able to dig out something Sig/Succubus related at some point, possibly even at complete random.

Klug was one of those characters that I thought would always have his character development somewhat "stunted" due to SEGA seemingly dropping the lore and character development of the Fever-era cast.

Klug in general is someone who has gotten shockingly little focus in recent games, I mean he only appears a single time in PP7 and is only an optional party member in Chronicle (meaning you almost never see him) so he usually lacked the opportunity to show any progression, looking back PPT was comparatively actually pretty kind to him.

 

[puyokid]

What's also notable is that Jan's main way of attacking involves enlarging her hand, so her being smitten with Sig's arm and hopefully by extension also just Sig in general, is actually very fitting for her, that's an angle that I never even considered beforehand.

You know, Jan being so interested in Sig's arm like she was even reminds me a bit of Sig's conversation with Rulue in 15th. Granted, Rulue was a bit more..."creatively naughty"when bringing up the subject of his arm. Heck, considering the "semi-recreation" of Klug and Amitie's conversation in Fever 2, I almost thought Jan's conversation with Sig was going to go the route Sig and Rulue's conversation in 15th had gone.

I'm sure there is some somewhere out there, I mean look at what I found yesterday:

Yes, Sig/Runelord, if something as out there as this can be a thing and I thought I was being creative with Sig/Doppel then I'm sure I will be able to dig out something Sig/Succubus related at some point, possibly even at complete random.

Oh my...OK, there HAS to be at least ONE piece of Sig x Succbus fanart out there. Like, there just HAS to be.

 

[warelander]

You know, Jan being so interested in Sig's arm like she was even reminds me a bit of Sig's conversation with Rulue in 15th. Granted, Rulue was a bit more..."creatively naughty"when bringing up the subject of his arm. Heck, considering the "semi-recreation" of Klug and Amitie's conversation in Fever 2, I almost thought Jan's conversation with Sig was going to go the route Sig and Rulue's conversation in 15th had gone.

Now that you are saying that I'm imagining Jan trying to be flirty with Sig, like Rulue was, which considering her extremely lighthearted and playful attitude would be pretty damn adorable, now that I think about it.

Yah know this makes me happy, not just because of Sig and Jan meeting, but also because it gives Jan a little more spotlight, looking back she has gotten a fair bit of stuff in Quest over time, next to this manzai she also had an earlier one with Suketoudara, got an alt before many others (some of which still don't have one) and is the poster child of the ''Hydrangea Collection Quest''.

For such an admitingly minor character that's a lot and more then a number of more prominent characters have gotten so far and it makes hope that this is a sign of SEGA having an interest to use her more often, perhaps even put her into a mainstream title one of these days. By extension I of course, also hope that this isn't last time that we have seen her and Sig together.

Oh my...OK, there HAS to be at least ONE piece of Sig x Succbus fanart out there. Like, there just HAS to be.

Yeah, I mean I thought there was no Sig/Doppel stuff out there for the longest time and not only have I been proven wrong on that, but now we know that art of him with at least one Madou Monogatari character exists, so I'd say anything is possible.

 

[puyokid]

Now that you are saying that, I'm imagining Jan trying to be flirty with Sig, like Rulue was, which considering her extremely lighthearted and playful attitude would be pretty damn adorable, now that I think about it.

Honestly, it'd be one of the cutest things I can imagine happening for this series. It'd only get even MORE adorable by the fact that Sig would (obviously) be COMPLETELY oblivious to her advances. Heck, Jan would probably find his cluelessness all the more cute.

Yah know this makes me happy, not just because of Sig and Jan meeting, but also because it gives Jan a little more spotlight, looking back she has gotten a fair bit of stuff in Quest over time, next to this manzai she also had an earlier one with Suketoudara, got an alt before many others (some of which still don't have one) and is the poster child of the ''Hydrangea Collection Quest''.

Wow, I was never aware that Jan got anything close to this amount of stuff in Puyo Quest. Say, what was her manzai with Suketoudara about anyways? Also, I always thought the the poster children of the Hydrangea Collection Quest were...well, Sig and Strange Klug (Even normal Klug, to an extent). I never knew Jan was even involved in that quest to begin with.

For such an admittedly minor character that's a lot and more than a number of more prominent characters have gotten so far and it makes hope that this is a sign of SEGA having an interest to use her more often, perhaps even put her into a mainstream title one of these days. By extension, I of course also hope that this isn't last time that we have seen her and Sig together.

Jan is one Puyo character (among many, MANY others) that I'd LOVE to see return (or in her case, make her big debut) in a mainstream Puyo game. Honestly, with SEGA's recent (constant) usage of her in Quest, I feel like this could be leading up to something big for her. I'd love to see her annoy everyone with her pranks, and I'd also LOVE to see her and Sig interact once again!

Yeah, I mean I thought there was no Sig/Doppel stuff out there for the longest time and not only have I been proven wrong on that, but now we know that art of him with at least one Madou Monogatari character exists, so I'd say anything is possible.

Exactly. I mean, I'm a little shocked that I haven't come across any Sig x Succubus fanart yet as it is. Like you said, we now have fanart of Sig paired with a character who is EXCLUSIVE to Madou Monogatari, so Sig x Succubus should be a thing by now, right? Though, now that we bring it up, I wonder how Sig and Succubus would interact...

Klug in general is someone who has gotten shockingly little focus in recent games, I mean he only appears a single time in PP7 and is only an optional party member in Chronicle (meaning you almost never see him) so he usually lacked the opportunity to show any progression, looking back PPT was comparatively actually pretty kind to him.

Oh, wow! You're right, I never really took notice of it before now, but it's like the only game after 15th to give real screentime was Puyo Tetris...which is a little sad when you consider that it took him (an admittedly successful) Puyo mobile game to make any real headway in his goals. I mean, I suppose I get why that's the case, ('A' Trio shenanigans) but still.

 

[warelander]

Honestly, it'd be one of the cutest things I can imagine happening for this series. It'd only get even MORE adorable by the fact that Sig would (obviously) be COMPLETELY oblivious to her advances. Heck, Jan would probably find his cluelessness all the more cute.

That would be precious indeed and even on just a platonic level I think the two could develop a great dynamic, the spacey and calm Sig + the energetic and mischievous Jan, very much an opposites attract kind of friendship.

Say, what was her manzai with Suketoudara about anyways?

No idea, I have yet to find any translations for it.

Also, I always thought the the poster children of the Hydrangea Collection Quest were...well, Sig and Strange Klug (Even normal Klug, to an extent). I never knew Jan was even involved in that quest to begin with.

Funny you mention them, because neither Sig nor any of the Klugs are part of that quest, whch is rather strange geddid!?! Despite how much fans like to use the Hydrange motif for Sig and SK it's actually surprisingly underused in the games, I actually thought of a way that also connects Arle and Doppel to the red/blue motif, in a way that I feel fits them, however I have a hard time deciding whether I'm being symbolic or pretentious with it.

so Sig x Succubus should be a thing by now, right?

I'd be more surprised if it wasn't.

Oh, wow! You're right, I never really took notice of it before now, but it's like the only game after 15th to give real screentime was Puyo Tetris...which is a little sad when you consider that it took him (an admittedly successful) Puyo mobile game to make any real headway in his goals. I mean, I suppose I get why that's the case, ('A' Trio shenanigans) but still.

There was also 20th, but the kinda sad thing about PPT is that the amount of screentime Klug get's there isn't notable because it's so much, but rather because he doesn't get noticably less the almost everyone else, like in 7 or Chronicle.