Poll Thoughts on Waluigi?
- Thread starter CM30
- Start date
Yikes Spike
Not related with Wreck it Ralph.
There's a theory which states that Waluigi and Jimmy T. are the same person.
That would mean Waluigi would have to gain and lose pounds every time he switches costumes.
I despair.
The 'only example I gave you' is because you asked for what's shown now, which I agree it doesn't make justice to the character she should have been based on what was actually there from the beginning. Daisy isn't lucky enough to be the protagonist or the villian of the game she appears in, but she is indeed the princess of the kingdom the whole game takes place in. And that kingdom is full of personality. Taking into consideration she's part of that particular plot where you're only allowed to see her at the end of the game, that is a pretty clever method of letting you know who she is: via the kingdom she rules over and the game mechanics that take place in it. ChanceTime said it pretty well: the whole desert theming, the wackiness of it, the Sky Pop and other vehicles of the like... those are all things unique to Daisy's kingdom and, by extension, herself. As of now she IS the only thing from Land we have left (Wario has his own two franchises to take care of), so not only using her kingdom as a base is suiting to her character but also her ROLE as a whole.
To be honest it ain't about defending Daisy at all, apologies if I come across as not letting you have an opinion on her, because it's not the case. It's just that I feel this attitude with the fandom in general that annoys me:
''No, no, Waluigi is pretty cool: we just have to GIVE him this and that and it'd make things a lot better!''
''Yes, Daisy HAD all of this things, but the guys who made the spinoffs didn't include them and therefore they don't belong to her''.
I DO get the dislike for Daisy under those circumstances. What I don't get is how they don't apply to Waluigi and suddenly we gotta try and make him good but that same effort doesn't apply to characters that actually had merit from their very concept.
Heck, if it was about changing him or making him better I could totally suggest exploring the dance motif and giving him an afro to compliment the theming, along with calling him something less attached to other characters. ...But that would stop him from being Waluigi, because he is a lazy idea from his name to his personality and through his very concept, and to make him better we would have to change all of that.
I'm just really curious as to WHY a lazy character made with the only purpose of being filler deserves to be justified over other characters who have only been treated like shit when they have done much more than just existing.
Yikes Spike
Not related with Wreck it Ralph.
This post tells that theory, and somehow made it canon:
http://waluigiwatch.tumblr.com/post/111195860251/you-know-how-waluigi-seems-to-never-appear-in-the
I never stated that Waluigi deserves it more to be justified than Daisy or that those things from Land don't belong to her just because they aren't used and appreciate it if you didn't put words into my mouth.
I only hate Daisy because of what she is NOW, Land totally should be her base and it would be easy to win me over if she changed into that direction, it just hasn't been done for decades now, if she doesn't represent anything from Land, the game she SCHOULD be based off and there are no signs of that changing then I don't see why Daisy is deserving of getting cut some slack, having a base means squad if nothing is done with it.
I'd like you to answer a question: you are saying that Waluigi as he is now has no worth to him, but changing him would make him stop to resemble what he is now.
My question is: why SHOULDN'T he be changed, what is there to gain from keeping things as they are now?
Yeah it would almost be like making a new character, but if that character is better than what we had before wouldn't that be a good thing?
I only hate Daisy because of what she is NOW, Land totally should be her base and it would be easy to win me over if she changed into that direction, it just hasn't been done for decades now, if she doesn't represent anything from Land, the game she SCHOULD be based off and there are no signs of that changing then I don't see why Daisy is deserving of getting cut some slack, having a base means squad if nothing is done with it.
I'd like you to answer a question: you are saying that Waluigi as he is now has no worth to him, but changing him would make him stop to resemble what he is now.
My question is: why SHOULDN'T he be changed, what is there to gain from keeping things as they are now?
Yeah it would almost be like making a new character, but if that character is better than what we had before wouldn't that be a good thing?
That's entirely true. They should've used the Land basis more, yeah.
Remove him. Take him out. Literally print out the coding that's used to display him slinking around on sports games and burn every page on a large bonfire.
No edits or enhancements to his character are necessary if you forget trying to polish a turd and instead use the space for someone worth a fuck. If anything, Mario Kart 7 makes it pretty evident that he doesn't need to be around, so as far as I'm concerned he need not be in anything else past this point.
Yeah, everyone involved with TeamSyrup is insistent on the notion that Waluigi took up space better saved for Syrup intially, but looking past that there's all sorts of worthwhile characters you could put in place of him, Wario-series or otherwise. That applies for the other recolours with no main-series history which the fanbase still seems to tolerate for whatever reason. Take Mario Kart 8 for example, think about how much free space you have if you remove all these dumbass characters:
Toadette, Baby Daisy, Baby Rosalina, Pink Gold Peach, Waluigi
Five whole spots that could be utilised in much better ways. But fuck, that's just going by the exact rules of having a non-main debut. By counting the other repeat-characters by proxy, Baby Mario, Baby Luigi, Baby Peach and Metal Mario, that's another four, so we're up to nine. Heck, if we account for your own tastes, Daisy being there knocks it up ten.
I know how much you hate Mario Kart rosters, we've talked about it before, I'm mainly just saying this for anyone else who might be reading. But the fact is Waluigi is just the same as all the rest of them that are held to the same standards; don't bother adding new shit to them or trying to redeem them, just remove. Which characters deserve the spots in place is subjective matter, sure, but these fucks sure as hell don't. Why should they? Why should a character roster be allowed to fake its own value by offering easily-done quantity bumps? Fuck that, scaling the roster down but bothering to include some worthwhile characters has a million times the value.
Waluigi is bad because he demonstrates the consumers' lack of willingness to ask for higher standards applied to their hobby. His widespread acceptance as a supposedly loved part of the Mario cast is a metaphor for settling for less.
As a fan of the Wario Land games, my firm belief is that every single presence of Waluigi could've been Syrup instead, but that's mainly born from confusion of his need to exist whatsoever.
Pre-Mario Tennis, Syrup was established and perfect for the role, hell Foreman Spike would've been an option too, if a less logical one. I certainly wouldn't have begrudged Spike becoming Wario's partner if he had, since at the very least he had a history. But even then, Post-Mario Tennis has seen other characters such as Rudy, Shokora or anybody from WarioWare that would've been befitting to take up Wario's P2 role, and that's not even taking into account that many of the games released didn't even need that role occupied.
What I'm saying is that Waluigi's debut and continued appearances are two seperate problems. There's the fact he was shit to begin with and the fact that he's still shit now. Toadette has the former, seeing as she was introduced under bullshit conditions but then later appeared in Paper Mario: TTYD and Treasure Tracker, Daisy has the latter since any trace of her Super Mario Land origin withered away, but still has that at her core.
To this day, Waluigi still has both strikes against him, making him a complete and utter waste of time, effort and file space. There's no reason not to remove him altogether.
Just removing him wouldn't improve anything, the whole putting someone more worthwhile in his place is based on the assumption that he was put in over Captain Syrup, but given that even a Wapeach was talked about rather then her it's likely that she was never even considert in the first place. I just don't see how removing this particular character is going to magically going to make other more worthwhile ones appear instead, since characters get removed, replaced and brought back all of the time in these games and yet nothing ever really becomes better.
People accepting Waluigi has hardly anything to do with "not wanting higher standarts" rather then people just not expecting much more out of these games regarding characterization and such, take me as an example (whether you believe anything I say or not) I hold characters in any franchise in high regard, that's why I prefer the Mario & Luigi series or the Mega Man Zero series over any other series in their respective franchises, because of their high focus on characters and story, in the spin off's thought you can do only so much with these characters and for me and plenty of other people Waluigi's wacky presence and moments in games like Strikers Charged are enough to make him a character they enjoy to watch and see in action, regardless of any problems applied to him and I'm still waiting to hear why that's such a heinous opinion to have and why him being removed and not taking those that did enjoy him into account is an improvement.
I also don't get the Toadette/Daisy comparison, so Toadette actually getting out of the spin offs and appearing in other games isn't worth a damn and she is still first up on the list of "dumbass characters" only because she debuted in a spin off game, while Daisy's single appearence in a plattformer is enough to cut her slack even thought Toadette has gotten two notable appearences (one main, one supporting) in non spin off games and a cameo in the opening of Galaxy in 13 years, while Daisy hasn't done anything worth mentioning since her debut over two decades ago, very "fair".
People accepting Waluigi has hardly anything to do with "not wanting higher standarts" rather then people just not expecting much more out of these games regarding characterization and such, take me as an example (whether you believe anything I say or not) I hold characters in any franchise in high regard, that's why I prefer the Mario & Luigi series or the Mega Man Zero series over any other series in their respective franchises, because of their high focus on characters and story, in the spin off's thought you can do only so much with these characters and for me and plenty of other people Waluigi's wacky presence and moments in games like Strikers Charged are enough to make him a character they enjoy to watch and see in action, regardless of any problems applied to him and I'm still waiting to hear why that's such a heinous opinion to have and why him being removed and not taking those that did enjoy him into account is an improvement.
I also don't get the Toadette/Daisy comparison, so Toadette actually getting out of the spin offs and appearing in other games isn't worth a damn and she is still first up on the list of "dumbass characters" only because she debuted in a spin off game, while Daisy's single appearence in a plattformer is enough to cut her slack even thought Toadette has gotten two notable appearences (one main, one supporting) in non spin off games and a cameo in the opening of Galaxy in 13 years, while Daisy hasn't done anything worth mentioning since her debut over two decades ago, very "fair".
Last edited:
That's not to say she shouldn't have been considered. If she wasn't, then that's merely shortsightedness on Camelot's behalf, since there's no logical reason she couldn't have been.
Oh, I'm not saying that'll magically make it better, the next step is that they have to put good ones in. That said, before you start refurbishing your garden, it's best to clean up all the dog turds.
That still doesn't give him any objective justification.
Because I'm a big meanie and don't want people to enjoy stuff that's rubbish.
I think you've misunderstood me a bit on that. The order in which I listed them was simply the order the came in MK8's roster, I didn't list them in order of how bad they were or anything. Besides, that wasn't really my point. As it stands now, Daisy and Toadette are on an even playing field, as I implied by showing that they both have one of Waluigi's appearance issues. I argue that starting with a valid appearance and losing it still puts you in higher standing than starting off in a spinoff and then appearing in stuff later through just. I qualified Toadette in that dumb tier simply because she fitted in with the 'introduced in a spinoff' crowd, which I value less than opening with main series appearances. You're free to think otherwise, of course. That statement wasn't about defending Daisy as much as it was crticism of Waluigi, is my point.
Of course she should have been considert, that goes without saying, it's just that everything we know seems to indicate that she wasn't, which is not only lame but also incredibly dumb, but that's just how things unfortunatly seemed to have went down.
I wasn't saying that Waluigi had any justfication because of that (althought I would argue that every character who is at least moderatly popular has SOME worth, but that's just me), I'm mainly bringing up that there are plenty of people that like the guy despite anything that would speak against him.
The thing is regardless of my opinions regarding current Daisy I never once brought up the idea of her getting the boot, because I think it's a lot more productive to try and improve on her instead of just canning her and disappointing everyone who happened to like her/certain aspects of her character.
I just want to know why it's not okay to feel the same way about Waluigi and why it's acceptable to hope that the wishes that everyone who happens to like him and have hopes regarding his future in the series have, get spat upon.
As for the Toadette thing I still don't see how the choice of debut game takes any worth from everything that could and has been done with her in later games, simply because that debut game happened to be a spin off, but if you were just stating your own opinion then I'm not going to fight it.
I wasn't saying that Waluigi had any justfication because of that (althought I would argue that every character who is at least moderatly popular has SOME worth, but that's just me), I'm mainly bringing up that there are plenty of people that like the guy despite anything that would speak against him.
The thing is regardless of my opinions regarding current Daisy I never once brought up the idea of her getting the boot, because I think it's a lot more productive to try and improve on her instead of just canning her and disappointing everyone who happened to like her/certain aspects of her character.
I just want to know why it's not okay to feel the same way about Waluigi and why it's acceptable to hope that the wishes that everyone who happens to like him and have hopes regarding his future in the series have, get spat upon.
As for the Toadette thing I still don't see how the choice of debut game takes any worth from everything that could and has been done with her in later games, simply because that debut game happened to be a spin off, but if you were just stating your own opinion then I'm not going to fight it.
Last edited:
Don't worry, we're still working on that time machine.
He's got Wario's bad-boy appeal but he's tall and thin. Is it really any surprise he's got fangirls?
Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. I like Daisy myself, but if cleaning up the cast meant removing her from the lineup, I could at least understand it since the potential established in SML was never built on throughout a very long time, as you said. For that reason I'd see her retirement as a necessity to pathe the way for new things, and I'd at least be grateful for the chances that she did actually get in that time.
I feel like if they had any enthusiasm whatsoever to build upon who she was, they would've done so by now. If she's got no more to offer, then fair enough. Leave her behind and make room.
Why bother trying to improve a clone of a clone and a clone? Anything he can do, other characters can do better, and his design isn't worth shitting on, so what would be the point in adding stuff to him? Just get him out the way and make room for more worthwhile characters who've done things.
This whole post really opened my eyes in a lot of ways regarding this discussion and our opposing viewpoints.
You care the most about preserving a certain quality in the cast and would prefer to just completely can Waluigi and maybe even Daisy (who you happen to like) for the sake of archiving that goal, while I would rather work on them and keep them around for the sake of not letting anyone who happens to like them down.
Two different opinions on the same matter, very clashing, but both still with their own merit.
I understand where you are coming from with your standpoint (especially now), I respect it, but I just plain don't share it, we just have to agree to disagree on this one and I apologize if I came off as harsh or dismissive of any of your points, that kind of stuff just tends to happen when several people with differing opinions feel strongly about the same subject, but hey, a little heat makes any discussion more interesting amiright? ;-)
Oh yeah, man! That's completely fine by me, I just really enjoy discussion and debate. Same here with me, if anything seemed rash that's just me getting well into an argument xD The key point is that we all had an interesting discussion and it's fun to do so!
It's good to hear that you share my sentiments, it really was interesting to hear your points in such detail and I hope this isn't the last time that we have a discussion like this.
Absolutely!It's good to hear that you share my sentiments, it really was interesting to hear your points in such detail and I hope this isn't the last time that we have a discussion like this.
Luckily Mel's gone to piñata right now so I can take all of the credit for her points, too.
Looking forward to the next time we can have another 1 to 1 discussion! You know, it feels so great to be able to have a debate completely by ourselves. You know, without any aid from anyone else. Yes... Man to man without any help whatsoever. Especially not tiny cosplaying Mexicans with silly poodles.
http://wl-treasure-trove.tumblr.com/post/126091325367/why-not-both-captain-syrup-and-waluigi-both
I suppose this should fill in any explanatory gaps. Not sure, though.
I suppose this should fill in any explanatory gaps. Not sure, though.
Why would Captain Syrup team up with Wario though? Because of him, Syrup lost her treasure twice. And this is before the Shake It thing, so in my opinion it makes no sense.
The same reason Yoshi would team up with Birdo.