My Wario Land-inspired project in the works!

[QUOTE="Fanbot, post: 61011, member: 531"
About multiple treasures in each level:
I'm not a big fan of the idea. Treasures are losing their flavour the more there are.
If you want something to collect to pass a level, then Moon Stones have the same purpose.)[/QUOTE]

So you're saying, having some collectables be not treasures, but something like Odyssey's Power Moons?
 
wariolandgoldpiramid said:
Fanbot said:
About multiple treasures in each level:
I'm not a big fan of the idea. Treasures are losing their flavour the more there are.
If you want something to collect to pass a level, then Moon Stones have the same purpose.)
Click to expand...

So you're saying, having some collectables be not treasures, but something like Odyssey's Power Moons?
Click to expand...

Pretty much so, yes. Even in Wario's games are treasures mostly optional:
- In WL1 and WL2 they have no influence of the story and have no function other than being trophies (and effecting the type of ending you'll get).
You don't have to collect any of them, but it feels wrong to leave them behind if you find them, be it by seeing the treasure gate/key (WL1) or being reminded of their existence at the end of each level (both the regular ones and the part of the treasure map)
- In WL3 collecting treasure is the main objective. But most treasure have a function and help progressing the story. Replacing them with something more generic would hurt the game experience.
- In WL4 the levels itself have no treasures at all and only the boss awards them by beating them within time limits (which separates them from the rest of the game). Within all levels the objective is the same: collect all 4 pieces to unlock the boss door (and Keyser for the next level). I'd argue that replacing the key pieces with treasure would hurt the game, since treasure have no function as keys by themself.

I'd talk more about the other Wario games, but I have never played them (Wario World, Warioland (for VB)), finished it (Shake It!) or never want to replay it again (Master of Disguise).

>Back to the topic: If a game has a larger quantity of collectables, having a iconic appearance makes sense in multiple ways:
-easier to recognise (usually eye-catching design, hard to overlook)
-clear function (everyone know what each one does -> function-to-shape-relation)
(there are probably more reasons i haven't thought about)

Do collectathon have multiple collectables with different function? (in games like "A Hat in Time" or "Yooka-Laylee" or older ones?)
I kind of want to know more the fundamental mechanics behind them.
 
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Well, Rare's old games had tons of different collectables with different functions. The jiggies, jingos, feathers, eggs, skulls in Banjo-Kazooie games, the various types of bananas plus the fairies, blueprints, coconuts, etc in DK 64...
 
You're right, but things like feathers,eggs and coconuts (I assume as ammunition) can't really be seen as collectable since the amount of them changes during gameplay. Money in general also isn't a collectable IMO because you can grind it with time, unless it isn't replaced. The skulls in Banjo-Kazooie are technically collectables. Their amount changes (traded against service) but they are not replaced and the service itself is available after unlocking it.

I think I'd define collectable as following:
Everything that can be aquired by the player during gameplay without immediate impact into the gameplay itself (-> excludes permanent upgrades). They are not replaced with time and the amount of them in the game are finite (-> excludes money and ammunition).

This would include:
-Jiggies, skulls in Banjo-Kazooie (traded for access to new areas)
-Jingos (Didn't they only influence the endboss?)
-Music Scrolls in Shovel Knight (unlock parts of the soundtest)
-Treasures in Warioland-games
-Gem pieces and Keyser in WL4
-Money and Cards in Ittle Dew (only as content of chests)
-Hourglasses in A Hat in Time (as far as I know they don't impact the gameplay)
-Feather/Pages in Yakoo-Laylee (same as A Hat in Time)
-Strawberries in Celeste
-The Pokedex in Pokemon ("Catch them all")
-Photos in Zelda: Link's Awakening
-Sculptures in Zelda: Minish Cap and Windwaker

Problems in some games because:
>immediate gameplay impact:
-Souls and enemy drops in Castlevania :Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow
-Unique equipment in RPG (Elder Scrolls, Dark Souls, Castlevania (Metroidvania-style))
-Pickups in Doom (I don't think you can return to previous levels, making them finite)
-Environmental pickups in randomly generated games (predetermined amounts)
-Masks in Zelda:Majora's Mask (secondary function before endboss)
-Totems, Spells and Forges in Overlord

I play some Collectathons if I get the chance. Never really payed much attention to them until now.
 
Well, in regards to collecting treasure to pass levels, I thought that would make the most sense and have things be a little different as opposed to just heading straight towards a goal. At most, you would have four treasure chests to find in each level; other times three.
 
I think I see a problem here:
- You want treasures as keys to finish the levels. (more functional -> gameplay)
- I want treasures as special flavour. (more asthetics -> gamefeel)

One way to combine both properties os the following:
> treasure chests are "functional" collectable, treasures are "asthetic" collectable.

I imagine it this way:
Treasure chests can be collected like keys. But Mint can't open them and you have to finish the level to let Toffee open them.
This solves some problems:
- Opening treasures the monent you find them as two problems:
+If you die during gameplay, you still know what is in the chest, destroying the flavour of treasures.
If treasures weren't collectable that wouldn't be much of a problem, but as keys you might have to find them multiple times.
+Time-Waster: Animations for opening chest and presenting the treasure cost time, disrupting the flow of the game.
Of course you can reduce this, but it hurt the asthetics of treasures.
-> "WL: Shake It" did this and the treasures were quite underwhelming IMO. (It kind of blowns my mind I never noticed it until now.)

Toffee could open the treasure by normal way like lockpicks.
... YOU SMASH IT WITH A GIANT NUTCRACKER.
>Does it make sense? NO, but it feels amazing!



Also:
You can have a Treasure Tracker and a Treasure Cracker.
(Probably is a pretty lame pun)
 
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Fanbot said:
Treasure chests can be collected as keys. But Mint can't open them and you have to finish the level to let Toffee open them.
Click to expand...

Hahaha, I thought of exactly this! Which is what I meant by having Toffee appraise them.

Actually, thinking about it, I'm wondering about one thing. If you collect all the available treasure chests, should that be immediately the end, or will you have to head to some kind of goal point?
 
Getting all treasures should unlock the final level, like in Wario Land 2.
It would be a difficult liniar course, being the final exam, testing the player on every game mechanic an most level gimmicks they have encountered.

At the end of the level would be The Ultimate Treasure.
Exsept it would turn out that the ultimate treasure is actually Friendship, and our two characters would learn to value their friendship, as well as their friendship with the player, more than all of the other treasure and coins they've colected.
 
wariolandgoldpiramid said:
Getting all treasures should unlock the final level, like in Wario Land 2.
It would be a difficult liniar course, being the final exam, testing the player on every game mechanic an most level gimmicks they have encountered.
Click to expand...

I actually thought of doing something like that, by having a true final boss. I even have an idea for said boss...though I'm not sure if I should say it or not....
 
Gurin said:
Hahaha, I thought of exactly this! Which is what I meant by having Toffee appraise them.
Click to expand...
I understood appraisal as determining the value of the treasure, not opening the chests.

Gurin said:
Actually, thinking about it, I'm wondering about one thing. If you collect all the available treasure chests, should that be immediately the end, or will you have to head to some kind of goal point?
Click to expand...
You should use a goal point if you have multiple mandatory chests (-> What sense do keys have without a door to open with them).
Even if they were not mandatory you'd need a goal point. Unless you want to kick the player out of the level after each treasure he collects.
 
So....if many of you noticed, Mint is a baseball fan.

I happened to consider giving her a moveset based on that; like Mint getting special balls with certain properties. Like a fast ball that ricochets when pitched or a heavy ball that breaks things.

Thoughts?
 
That could be fun.
But projectiles should be limited in some way, having infinite balls would be to much.

I also wanted to suggest implementing Wario's rolling abbility. Cause that, aside of the transformations, is one of the more unique mechanics of the Wario Land series, and it's a fun way to solve puzzles.
 
Well, you could provide a way to refill the thrown balls. Just make sure it's more generous than Mickey Mania was with its marbles...
 
So I thought of something while on the train home from work yesterday. Thought of going Doki Doki Panic/Mario 2 and having Mint pluck veggies to attack. But these aren't ordinary veggies, they're mandragoras. Also considered that the island itself was home to the mandragoras but something came to the island and trapped them. So throughout the game, plucking mandragoras rescues them, and thus you can use them to attack or progress through obstacles.

Opinions?
 
CM30 said:
You're posting in a forum about a series with dancing cats, a hero who solves puzzles by being set on fire and an evil cuckoo clock. Nothing is too 'weird'.
Click to expand...

Haha, good point, my friend. So what do you think of the idea?
 
Sounds interesting. It's like a cross between the vegetables in Super Mario Bros 2 and the Pi'illos in Mario & Luigi Dream Team.
 
There was another mechanic idea I was planning on possibly falling back on.

Gurin said:
Mint being able to "collect". Think of it similar to the Villager's Pocket in Smash Bros. Mint will basically "pocket" an item (or an enemy) and place them in her "inventory". And when she needs to, she can chuck out whatever she has. Or, if she keeps them, they will be appraised by Toffee who'll make a comment about them.
Click to expand...

Thoughts on this?
 
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