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Shirren

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To be entirely honest the information that's based on unreleased Novels, but according to Marin (our Fearless Leader) all of the unrealeased (in other words it was never written just a plot synopsis) information is canon. Marin told be herself that the ARS went on a big magical adventure to fight the creator, becoming friends and helping each other along the way. but Arle and Schezo where the only people that were supposed to be able to fight him. However Schezo somehow disappeared, and only Arle and Rulue was left. The cult was supposedly made up of the "Catastopher Seven" and the "Triblade" which made of of three people related to each of the ARS trio, (Arle's friend, Rulue's Father, and Schezo's stepbrother respectively). So I don't think Rulue herself would have just irrevocably melted down seeing after all the ARS has gone through. Even though from what I heard that her parent couldn't have cared less about her (and she was already 20 at the time of the story). Wouldn't discount her having a BSOD moment, but the final boss battle takes place when she's at 22 years, so its possible she may have recovered.

Just food for thought, Satan replicated/reincarnations places Arle at 16 and Rulue at 18, possible as a failsafe to stop them from Remembering Ragnorok.
 

warelander

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Huh, I thought that was one of the released ones, then again my only source on that is a thread on Puyo Nexus and everyone can make a mistake .

That would be one explaination for why he chose to recreate Arle as a 16 year old....it still does little to make his pining for a eternal teen any less creepy though.
 

Shirren

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Most stuff in Puyo Nexus is wildly inaccurate, and the community has little to no interest in the lore as much as they do playing the Puyo. The Discords leader just make garbage posts while he "translates" his let's plays, and then there is another mod who will 10 day ban you for getting in an argument about someone's Mary Sue OC.

For point of reference, the age of consent/marrying age in JP ranges from 13-17 based on district, and in most low-tech civilizations (that most RPGs are based on), most girls got married in their teens as well. There is also the thing that Arle is the reincarnation of Lillith, who used to be Satan's wife (who were also mortal enemies until Satan fell in love with her, and the Creator cast him out of heaven). Because Satan is a demon who can live thousands of years and Lilith is you know, a human, she grew into an old lady and died, and he misses her, which is why he's after Arle (and why Rulue holding out for Satan being the way he is is a very bad idea).

Honestly I'm not sure if Satan knows Arle is Lillith's reincarnation or not, but if he did why doesn't he just tell her (and why doesn't Lillith tell Arle during Final Test)? I mean I think it would save Arle and Rulue some grief at least (then again in 20th he said he wanted girls to fight over him).
 

puyokid

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@Shirren

That reminds me, is it true that Rulue's parents NEVER cared about her? From what I heard and read, her parents were just always SO busy with running their family business (Heck if I know what said family business entails), that they simply never had time for her, leaving her grandma and her family's butler as the only parental figures in her life. In fact, I know I've seen somewhere that Rulue's occasional sour attitude stems from both her parents not being around AND her grandmother breaking a Pinky-Swear promise she made with her in regards to her getting a Cherry Blossom (Sakura) music box for her upcoming birthday.

Also, I think I know what you're talking about in regards to the Catastropher Seven. As a matter of fact, I got the same info from here. It was this site that I even reposted the link to on my Tumblr, and you wouldn't believe the good reception I got from said post, since this website FINALLY explains (to the West) things like Doppelganger Arle's origins, existence, and motives in Puyo Puyo~n, the reason why no one from the Madou-era of Puyo Puyo ages or have serious different personalities from the Madou games.

Still though, if I could add my input on Satan, I just want to say that I completely agree with you about Satan is not all that great of a person. Obvously, he's a FAR cry from that, contrary to Rulue's views on him. As a matter of fact, one thing I REALLY dislike about the Puyo games today is that Satan's (and Ecolo's) power serve as WAY too much of a "Deus ex Machina", leaving things without much of consequence. I know Puyo Puyo isn't meant to be taken THAT seriously, but the storytelling is too soft and stagnant these days.

Also, if I could add my opinion on Rulue here, I just want to say that I don't think she's been TOTALLY flanderized (if at all, for that matter). The problem is that SEGA doesn't do anything of worth/meaning with her, and that leaves her to be all one-note with her love for Satan. A problem that we can sort of apply to just about the entire cast (Yeah, I'm including the 'A' Trio, Satan, and Ecolo as well).

@warelander

I saw your Tumblr, and saw you answer a question pertaining to your recent like for Sig x Rafisol. That being said, your answer to the question (Sig being sort put out of his usual role of being all spacey, and being a source of comfort), combined with this current discussion about Rulue made me wonder... do you think you'd ever do a fic about Sig and Rulue?

It doesn't have to be shippy, but maybe Sig would be aware of Rulue's obsession with Satan, and he'd notice that Satan not only NEVER returns the sentiment, but purposely goes out of his way to avoid her. Thus resulting in Sig comforting her, but not without some difficultly, of course (i.e. Rulue losing her temper multiple times, and threatening to "Rock Punch" the living daylights out of him).
 

Shirren

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I don't think Rulue "loses her temper" as often as she get accused of, it's just that when a female character (esp. human females) has an emotion, people punish her more for it. I've already see enough fics that overplay a character's emotional state, and I don't think Rulue needs anymore. To be honest, I seriously doubt Rulue would get mad at someone for trying to be her friend, because because Raffina, Seriri, Oshare, Ms. Accord and Lidelle (and I guess you can count Ringo as well) have all had positive feedback from her. Rulue is not an unreasonable person.

I see a few of characters attack Rulue completely unprovoked in 20th for stupid reasons.

As far as Satan and Ecolo go, in Madou Monogatari, Meta-concepts such as Anti-Magic/Power Nullification don't exist. Marin also insists that Elemental Resistance isn't a thing, because magic supposedly powerful enough to bypass anything. I kind of pointed out that would kill the purpose for having different elemental spells, and I usually go by the rule,if everyone is a super no one is. Because if everyone has magic it's not really "special", and the whole magic can do anything because magic isn't appropriate when magic is the rule and not the exception. If it was Gandalf from Lord of the Rings or you have a handful of wizards in a modern setting, you can get away with that.

In order to deal with the Satan/Ecolo thing... you would have to suck them in another world or distract them with something (they are both overgrown kids, it wouldn't be that hard for someone like say, Count, Yogrus, or even Ourobourus (from the Ally novel), to come up with something to divert their attention. There is also the fact that neither of them would be everywhere at once, and you would have Madou, Primp, Suzuran, Tetris, and Chronicle to cover. If problems happened on multiple worlds it would take time to contain all of it. As far as Ex and Ms. Accord, Ex is busy maintaining the dimensions and Ms. Accord tends to let her pupils solve their own problems.
 

Shirren

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Now that I think about it, Marin told me once that her Rulue's grandmother used to be a solider (which was strange because Madou doesn't have any governments anymore). Given what Rulue's father does in the Catatshropher story, as well as where her hometown is, I would think the "family business" might be adventuring, i.e. "kill things and take their stuff", or exploring old ruins, like the one from Madou S. Another thing to know is that Rulue is often seen around rural or natural areas, with mountains and forests, meaning she might not have as much contact with the outside world, so there is a very good possibility she really did grow up without any friends, which is explains a lot about why she hangs out with Arle at her magic school even though she can't use magic (even though PC-98 Rulue wasn't even a martial artist, that was written later but it's a good explanation anyway).
 

puyokid

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I don't think Rulue "loses her temper" as often as she get accused of, it's just that when a female character (esp. human females) has an emotion, people punish her more for it. I've already see enough fics that overplay a character's emotional state, and I don't think Rulue needs anymore. To be honest, I seriously doubt Rulue would get mad at someone for trying to be her friend, because because Raffina, Seriri, Oshare, Ms. Accord and Lidelle (and I guess you can count Ringo as well) have all had positive feedback from her. Rulue is not an unreasonable person.

I see a few of characters attack Rulue completely unprovoked in 20th for stupid reasons.
Sorry, maybe I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be. What I meant was that Rulue is certainly a reasonable woman, bu for the sake of "comedy", most characters she interacts with just happen to know the right combination of buttons to successfully set her off. In the case of my fic idea, Sig (obviously) wouldn't INTEND to set her off, but bringing up the sore subject of Satan would end up warranting an annoyed reaction from her.

As far as Satan and Ecolo go, in Madou Monogatari, Meta-concepts such as Anti-Magic/Power Nullification don't exist. Marin also insists that Elemental Resistance isn't a thing, because magic supposedly powerful enough to bypass anything. I kind of pointed out that would kill the purpose for having different elemental spells, and I usually go by the rule,if everyone is a super no one is. Because if everyone has magic it's not really "special", and the whole magic can do anything because magic isn't appropriate when magic is the rule and not the exception. If it was Gandalf from Lord of the Rings or you have a handful of wizards in a modern setting, you can get away with that.

In order to deal with the Satan/Ecolo thing... you would have to suck them in another world or distract them with something (they are both overgrown kids, it wouldn't be that hard for someone like say, Count, Yoggus, or even Ouroboros (from the Ally light novel), to come up with something to divert their attention. There is also the fact that neither of them would be everywhere at once, and you would have Madou, Primp, Suzuran, Tetris, and Chronicle to cover. If problems happened on multiple worlds it would take time to contain all of it. As far as Ex and Ms. Accord, Ex is busy maintaining the dimensions and Ms. Accord tends to let her pupils solve their own problems.
This is something I'd like to see actually. Satan and/or Ecolo being matched by in power by a REAL antagonist that can undo their powers for an extended period of time, giving the cast something of meaning to do. Personally, I'd like for the Count to be this antagonist, but I'd don't think SEGA can use him in a Puyo game. I doubt Ex will be appearing in any more future games due to the Tetris Company having half-ownership of him. As for Ms. Accord, you pretty much summed her up for me. The only additional thing I think should be mentioned in her case is that she and Popoi WOULD step in if they knew things would get too hairy for the Primp Magic Academy kids to handle.

Now that I think about it, Marin told me once that her Rulue's grandmother used to be a solider (which was strange because Madou doesn't have any governments anymore). Given what Rulue's father does in the Catatshropher story, as well as where her hometown is, I would think the "family business" might be adventuring, i.e. "kill things and take their stuff", or exploring old ruins, like the one from Madou S. Another thing to know is that Rulue is often seen around rural or natural areas, with mountains and forests, meaning she might not have as much contact with the outside world, so there is a very good possibility she really did grow up without any friends, which is explains a lot about why she hangs out with Arle at her magic school even though she can't use magic (even though PC-98 Rulue wasn't even a martial artist, that was written later but it's a good explanation anyway).
Wow, Rulue's grandma was really a soldier? Guess it explains Rulue's brave attitude. BTW, what was Rulue's hometown like anyways? All I know of it is that Rulue grew up learning martial arts there, she ended up fighting her old master and fellow classmates after she learned of them being involved in some shady business, though she obviously wasn't exactly thrilled at the prospect of doing so. Also, I know I've read somewhere that Rulue is confirmed to have not had any friends before Arle.

Speaking of which, you know her butler (the OTHER parental figure in her life) is actually a retried ninja?
 

Shirren

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I didn't know about the butler being a ninja, but it makes a whole lot of sense.

I don't know about you, but I think we "all" have triggers whether we want to admit it or not. I know a lot of millennial kids can get triggered by some incredibly petty stuff. but I feel if you deliberately go out of your way to make someone angry, or just being thoughtless in general when dealing with people's feeling, you absolutely deserve what happens to you if they decide to retaliate. I think Rulue being a "normal" person (as in can't use magic), and having "normal" values (she wants to be a girly maiden and get married). I know a lot of "normal" female characters getting hyper-upset if what makes their life normal gets screwed with (in fact a LOT of people I know IRL are like that to a degree).

Also you have to top this off with the way things are settled in Madou. It's a *lot* like a Shin Megami Tensei vibe, with the a survival of the fittest, winner-take-all mentality (this is a world that has 4 years olds going into the woods alone as part of their Kindergarten Exam). I'm guessing showing weakness to monsters and the like would get you killed (just the way animals act IRL, if the sense fear, they think your prey). I also know that it's a common trope that some martial arts cultures go a little bit to far, and it may just be Rulue's desire to be "normal" that keeps her grounded.

It's a big theory of mine that certain "breeds" of humans that can use magic, and others can't (or Rulue has a rare condition, like Gustave the Steel from SaGa Frontier 2). But the whole marital background certainly makes sense, seeing has people stopped making weapons and armor for magic because everyone can cast Fire and Icestorm at the age of 5 for 0 MP cost. So martial arts is the way for normal human without weapons or magic.

Another thing that occurs to me. There are still monsters like Owlbear, Minotaur, Sukiya Podes, and Suketoudara that only use physical attacks.
I know that they won't go down in one hit from a spell, so why not use armor for that? Also weapons could still be useful if an enemy has some form of resistance, like if you didn't have what the monster was weak to, casting the same spell might have consequences like Arle's Frostbite scenario, or the enemy decided to cast Braindumbed on you or Bayohihi on itself. I also know that the regular zero-cost spells don't do a whole lot when you don't have Diacute, so its possible to be torn apart before you can kill them if your MP is low, or if Rot is a factor. It could also be a monster thing where monsters don't like humans having access to things that can poke them (there is a thing in the original Madou 3 that monsters were blocking the labyrinth that had the frostbite cure resources because the humans were damaging the place, and Rulue thought Arle stole Carbuncle from Satan so she sent Minotaur to get him back.

Rulue, being the woman she is, in the place she is just gets me thinking about all kinds of things.
 

warelander

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It doesn't have to be shippy, but maybe Sig would be aware of Rulue's obsession with Satan, and he'd notice that Satan not only NEVER returns the sentiment, but purposely goes out of his way to avoid her. Thus resulting in Sig comforting her, but not without some difficultly, of course (i.e. Rulue losing her temper multiple times, and threatening to "Rock Punch" the living daylights out of him).
Maybe someday, to be honest right now I'm actually more aiming to focus more on other characters and make Sig a bit less omnipresent in my works. Rafisol in particular is someone I really want to give some attention to.

But yeah, I also agree that Rulue, as long as Satan isn't a factor, really isn't particulary aggressive of a person, even in the SEGA games it usually takes some sort of provcation for her to declare a fight.
 

Shirren

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I especially like it when she just talks all girly and flowers come out when she talks in 20th, complete with the windmill and the flower field.
 

puyokid

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Hey there, everyone. It's been a while, huh? If no one minds, I just wanted to mention that on Tumblr, some of us have been wondering... maybe we should do our own unofficial Puyo project (maybe a webcomic) that sort of does the Puyo cast more justice. I'm not saying any of you have to get involved, I just wanted to bring it up.

Also, @warelander... I think you're going to REALLY appreciate this...



My goodness, she looks beautiful! Honestly, I'm wondering why Compile never did this.
 

warelander

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Hey there, everyone. It's been a while, huh? If no one minds, I just wanted to mention that on Tumblr, some of us have been wondering... maybe we should do our own unofficial Puyo project (maybe a webcomic) that sort of does the Puyo cast more justice. I'm not saying any of you have to get involved, I just wanted to bring it up.
I'm all in favor of helping that to become a reality, it's just that the past week or so has been a bit too rough for me, to do anything productive, it's also why the first real ''Return of the Doppelganger'' chapter isn't out yet.

Also, @warelander... I think you're going to REALLY appreciate this...

undefined
What did I do, to be blessed with something so beautiful!?
 

Shirren

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I don't think that would be a bad idea. I'm a member of the PPU site, and I am sure others on my Dischord would be clad to help.

What would I have to do?
 

warelander

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Doesn't look like you can anymore, you could before the Forum upgrade, but I can't find an option anymore.

Anyhoo, he isn't around here much anymore, which isn't exactly ideal for discussing something like this, but I can say that there isn't much of a distinct direction of who does what and what kind of positions everyone is going to have.

So far this hypothetical project is lacking in a distinct direction or leadership and I have been meaning to discuss this on Tumblr, where several others have shown interest in the idea, so I'll make sure I can get to bring some proper direction into it soon, just haven't had the time for it so far.
 

puyokid

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I'm all in favor of helping that to become a reality, it's just that the past week or so has been a bit too rough for me, to do anything productive, it's also why the first real ''Return of the Doppelganger'' chapter isn't out yet.
Anyhoo, he isn't around here much anymore, which isn't exactly ideal for discussing something like this, but I can say that there isn't much of a distinct direction of who does what and what kind of positions everyone is going to have.

So far this hypothetical project is lacking in a distinct direction or leadership and I have been meaning to discuss this on Tumblr, where several others have shown interest in the idea, so I'll make sure I can get to bring some proper direction into it soon, just haven't had the time for it so far.
I don't think that would be a bad idea. I'm a member of the PPU site, and I am sure others on my Dischord would be clad to help.

What would I have to do?
Uh, guys...well, I'm not saying we should give up on the project exactly, but...well, take a look at this:



- Click here for more info on these character model sheets

What did I do, to be blessed with something so beautiful!?
I thought the same thing. You know, if we go by your little theory of 'the more alts. a "mainstream" Puyo character gets, the more likely they are for the next mainstream game', well... could we possibly be looking at Jan appearing in a mainstream Puyo game...?
 

warelander

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Uh, guys...well, I'm not saying we should give up on the project exactly, but...well, take a look at this:

undefined
I'd generally like to know how interested you would be to actively help with the webcomic project, some other project isn't really any reason to give up on ours, if anything having many fan projects is a good thing.

As for this one, I'm mainly interested in it because it's from Phuijl, I never cared that much about the idea of a Puyo cartoon/anime, especially after the Light Novels have soured me on non-game materials, but I adore her style and would love to see it in animated form.

Plus she leans strongly towards the Fever site of things and shares some of my opinions on characterization and the sorts, so a lot of recurring things that annoy me in Puyo fanworks are likely not going to be here, which is exciting for me personally.

I thought the same thing. You know, if we go by your little theory of 'the more alts. a "mainstream" Puyo character gets, the more likely they are for the next mainstream game', well... could we possibly be looking at Jan appearing in a mainstream Puyo game...?
I sincerely doubt it.
 
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