Puyo Puyo

[puyokid]

I added them to the previous post, none of my followers are very active on weekends, so shouldn't make a difference.

Oh, OK.

Hey, I noticed that you didn't really get the context of some of the things I sent you, so here's the context (at least from what I can make out of them):

http://route87.chu.jp/gallery/log/pylog06.htm - Cute little Arle x Schezo Valentine's story

http://route87.chu.jp/gallery/comic/arca_01.htm - Judging from the context of the story, this seems to basically be the "prologue" of Puyo Puyo Fever 2 in manga form.

http://route87.chu.jp/gallery/comic/tel.htm - All right, now THIS one is a bit harder to decipher, but I'm going with the idea that Raffine calls Klug over the telephone to help her with her homework, though it seems she certainly makes a point out of explaining that he was NOT her first choice, but Amitie, Sig, Rider, and even Tarutaru weren't going to be of any REAL help to her.

BTW, there's one more that you may have missed on my last post, so here it is: http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=manga&illust_id=40627766

Yeah and to be honest one of these days I want to try and beat it, I have sampled it before, but the strategy game angle makes it quite difficult for someone who doesn't speak a lick of Japanese. Still, I was able to venture through the Madou Monogatari series just fine, so I'm sure I can power my way through this as well.

I just always had an odd fascination with Gaiden Wars, I think it's because it is so different and separate from the rest of the franchise that I find it so interesting, plus, as this entire page so far will attest to, I think that there is a lot of potential in linking it and the regular games together, for at least one game.

I know what you mean. Something about Gaiden Wars just feels like it truly fits with the main continuity (or at least, what you can salvage of it, ESPECIALLY these days) of Puyo Puyo, and like I've said, I'd be...pretty exicted if Daichi really WAS something along the lines of Arle's descendant. Again, even if was just for one game, I would absolutely LOVE it if Gaiden Wars' world served as the main setting to the "long-awaited" 'Puyo Puyo 8'. It would be so hype, IMO.

Also, if that idea ever happens I hope they make a longer remix of this as Daichi's theme:



It may be because it plays before the opening match between Watty and Daichi, but I always kinda associated it with the latter, ever since first sampling the game. Plus I just think it's a cool theme in general, despite how short it is and Gaiden Wars remixes would be a no brainer for the kind of game we where discussing.

Wow, I'd love for this to be Daichi's theme! It really fits the heroic theme Gaiden Wars goes in-game.

Considering how they never even bothered to bring it past soft release status that really wouldn't be shocking.

Exactly. Sadly, the same MIGHT apply to Sonic Runners' Puyo Puyo crossover event AND SEGA's 3D Collection of classic SEGA video games.. Heck, that might even be how SEGA managed to get away with referring to him as "Satan" rather than the usual "Dark Prince" localization. PPT is being promoted at the forefront this time around, so it's likely they couldn't get away with "Satan" with the general public in the West knowing about him.

 

[Monxiasyshrema77]

I could never get into this game, but I've always wanted to try it. It looks like a lot of fun and i can only get me a dreamcast, i can play puyo pop fever.

 

[warelander]

BTW, there's one more that you may have missed on my last post, so here it is: http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=manga&illust_id=40627766

I added it, no idea how I missed that one.

I know what you mean. Something about Gaiden Wars just feels like it truly fits with the main continuity (or at least, what you can salvage of it, ESPECIALLY these days) of Puyo Puyo, and like I've said, I'd be...pretty exicted if Daichi really WAS something along the lines of Arle's descendant. Again, even if was just for one game, I would absolutely LOVE it if Gaiden Wars' world served as the main setting to the "long-awaited" 'Puyo Puyo 8'. It would be so hype, IMO.

Hehe, glad that we are on the same wavelength and it really would it quite the comeback for the main series, I really am wondering what's the hold up with that.

Exactly. Sadly, the same MIGHT apply to Sonic Runners' Puyo Puyo crossover event AND SEGA's 3D Collection of classic SEGA video games.. Heck, that might even be how SEGA managed to get away with referring to him as "Satan" rather than the usual "Dark Prince" localization. PPT is being promoted at the forefront this time around, so it's likely they couldn't get AWAY with "Satan" with the general public in the West knowing about him.

Very true, that's the only way I can see them getting away with using Satan as his name.

Also, I said it before and I will say it again, but I feel that between the 3D Classics Collection, the CFF debacle and the larger then usual interest for PPT and Chronicle everything just kind of snowballed into making a localization a viable option again in SEGA's eyes. I might be overthinking things a bit, but I do feel like everything played a part in all of this.

 

[puyokid]

I could never get into this game, but I've always wanted to try it. It looks like a lot of fun and i can only get me a dreamcast, i can play puyo pop fever.

I won't lie, it's quite...tricky to get the hang of it, but over time, you'll get better.

I added it, no idea how I missed that one.

Thanks.

Hehe, glad that we are on the same wavelength and it really would it quite the comeback for the main series, I really am wondering what's the hold up with that.

You know, it just occurred to me...there hasn't been a new main series entry for 8 YEARS. Seriously, what's the holdup? I hope they haven't run out of ideas for main entry games...

Very true, that's the only way I can see them getting away with using Satan as his name.

Heh, glad we're on the same wavelength.

Also, I said it before and I will say it again, but I feel that between the 3D Classics Collection, the CFF debacle and the larger than usual interest for PPT and Chronicle everything just kind of snowballed into making a localization a viable option again in SEGA's eyes. I might be overthinking things a bit, but I do feel like everything played a part in all of this.

Oh, believe you me, I totally understand where' you're coming from. I have to admit, the fact that ALL of these things happened a bit TOO close to each other makes me think that SEGA really DID know what they doing here. ESPECIALLY with the sudden surge of interest in a localization of PPT AND Chronicles, not to mention that after all these years of waiting, we suddenly get ANOTHER Puyo game...AND it's re-skinned? Yeah, don't really see THAT happening in THIS day and age...

BTW, I think you forgot to mention the recent crossover events between Sonic and Puyo Puyo in Sonic Runners AND Puyo Puyo Quest. Personally, I like to think that those also helped. Honestly, it's a pipe dream, but I'm almost expecting a Sonic x Puyo Puyo home console crossover game soon with the recent appearances both have been making in the other's game lately...

Speaking of which, isn't it a bit...ODD how it took crossover events like those to have Sonic and Arle Nadja appear in the same game? I mean, the Puyo THEMSELVES appear in more games alongside Sonic than the 'A' trio or even Carbuncle.

 

[Monxiasyshrema77]

I won't lie, it's quite...tricky to get the hang of it, but over time, you'll get better.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[warelander]

Seriously, what's the holdup? I hope they haven't run out of ideas for main entry games...

I only have one suspicion on that:

Apart from Fever 2, all main titles were distinguished by them having a new main playstyle as the big selling point, unlike the non-main titles which either have no singular main playstyle or use the TSU ruleset.

While SEGA was successful with the Fever play style Henshin was met with a lot of criticism and it's generally agreed that it really didn't work the way it was intented (with Deka Mode being so much better then Mini Mode), so SEGA has been shying away from a Puyo Puyo 8 since then and likely will continue to do so until they can find a new play style that they truly believe will do the job.

With that said, that's just me firing a shot in the dark, no idea how accurate this may or may not be.

BTW, I think you forgot to mention the recent crossover events between Sonic and Puyo Puyo in Sonic Runners AND Puyo Puyo Quest. Personally, I like to think that those also helped. Honestly, it's a pipe dream, but I'm almost expecting a Sonic x Puyo Puyo home console crossover game soon with the recent appearances both have been making in the other's game lately...

Oh yeah, you can count that one too, I mean the event for Sonic Runners came up front to tell people in the west that Puyo Puyo Quest is a thing, which makes the anger over CFF even less surprising and in hinsight, makes the whole thing seem even more deliberate.

Speaking of which, isn't it a bit...ODD how it took crossover events like those to have Sonic and Arle Nadja appear in the same game? I mean, the Puyo THEMSELVES appear in more games alongside Sonic than the 'A' trio or even Carbuncle.

I think that's largely because SEGA used to hold Puyo on a low profile for quite a while, releasing games for it, but not giving the series a ton of merchandising, only moderate budgets and very limited exposure elsewhere, apart from token appearences of the Puyo themselves.

Nowadays SEGA is putting the series out into the spotlight a lot more, so I wouldn't be schocked to see Arle pop up in a new SEGA Superstars title or something along the lines of that.

 

[puyokid]

Thanks for the tip.

No problem.

I only have one suspicion on that:

Apart from Fever 2, all main titles were distinguished by them having a new main playstyle as the big selling point, unlike the non-main titles which either have no singular main playstyle or use the TSU ruleset.

While SEGA was successful with the Fever play style, Henshin was met with a lot of criticism and it's generally agreed that it really didn't work the way it was intended (with Deka Mode being so much better then Mini Mode), so SEGA has been shying away from a Puyo Puyo 8 since then and likely will continue to do so until they can find a new play style that they truly believe will do the job.

With that said, that's just me firing a shot in the dark, no idea how accurate this may or may not be.

To be fair, Fever 2 DID have the Item feature that allows you to choose an item that can affect the gameplay of the match. If I remember correctly, some items allow you to play as another character (something that was TECHNICALLY possible in Puyo Puyo~n AND Puyo Puyo Fever, though Yo~n only had the feature available in its story mode, and in Fever, you needed a button combination to do so).

The majority did helpful things such as dumping Nuisance Puyo on an opponent at the beginning, making attacks more powerful, setting up a chain for you to start with, or starting you with a couple points on your fever counter and pink "Chu" Puyo (which only appear in this game) appear in Endless Chu Panic where they replace Nuisance Puyo. Chu Puyo have no effect on gameplay and are a purely graphical modification.

Uh...right. So, uh...anyways, all of that aside, I DO understand what you're getting at here. Still, could you tell me what exactly was wrong with Transformation? The most I hear is that Chibi Mode was "overpowered" or something? Hmm...Actually, that might explain just why almost EVERY gameplay video I've watched of Puyo Puyo 7 has people default to Chibi Mode rather than Deka when Transformation is involved...

Also, it's been 8 years, and they STILL haven't found that "perfect" gameplay style that can compete with Tsu? Sheesh...

Oh yeah, you can count that one too, I mean the event for Sonic Runners came up front to tell people in the west that Puyo Puyo Quest is a thing, which makes the anger over CFF even less surprising and in hindsight, makes the whole thing seem even more deliberate.

Oh, wow. When you bring it up like THAT, the absolute HATRED for CFF seems SO much more justified now. I mean, not that it wasn't justified before, obviously.

I think that's largely because SEGA used to hold Puyo on a low profile for quite a while, releasing games for it, but not giving the series a ton of merchandising, only moderate budgets and very limited exposure elsewhere, apart from token appearances of the Puyo themselves.

Nowadays SEGA is putting the series out into the spotlight a lot more, so I wouldn't be shocked to see Arle pop up in a new SEGA Superstars title or something along the lines of that.

Well, limited merchandise OUTSIDE of Japan, but yeeeaaah...I can't help but feel like that was REALLY detrimental to Puyo Puyo as a whole, continuing with that kind of practice and all.

Still, I do agree with you that it'll probably only be a matter of time before Arle (and Carbuncle, and maybe Amitie and MAYBE Ringo) is added to a SEGA Superstars game.

 

[warelander]

To be fair, Fever 2 DID have the Item feature that allows you to choose an item that can affect the gameplay of the match. If I remember correctly, some items allow you to play as another character (something that was TECHNICALLY possible in Puyo Puyo~n AND Puyo Puyo Fever, though Yo~n only had the feature available in its story mode, and in Fever, you needed a button combination to do so).

The majority did helpful things such as dumping Nuisance Puyo on an opponent at the beginning, making attacks more powerful, setting up a chain for you to start with, or starting you with a couple points on your fever counter and pink "Chu" Puyo (which only appear in this game) appear in Endless Chu Panic where they replace Nuisance Puyo. Chu Puyo have no effect on gameplay and are a purely graphical modification.

Well yeah, I'm just saying that at it's core and despite the numerous additions it made, Fever 2 still follows the Fever ruleset, instead of introducing a new one like TSU, SUN, YON and Fever did before.

Still, could you tell me what exactly was wrong with Transformation? The most I hear is that Chibi Mode was "overpowered" or something? Hmm...Actually, that might explain just why almost EVERY gameplay video I've watched of Puyo Puyo 7 has people default to Chibi Mode rather than Deka when Transformation is involved...

I actually tend to hear differing opinions from competetive players on which is the overpowered one.

Even balancing problems aside, the other big gripe with it is that it's essentially a more extreme version of Fever, which may not sound bad on paper, but here's the deal :

Unlike Fever's 30 seconds Henshin caps at 99 and that's not accounting for the extra time that you get for clearing your field (very easy with Deka in particular). On top of that you are completely invincible in Henshin, again unlike in Fever, which means that the opposing player can't do andthing, but to enter Henshin mode themselves or wait out, until they can do damage again and it makes matches go on forever.

You know how annoying it is to play against Doppelganger Arle in YON, because of her barrier ability? It's similar to that.

 

[puyokid]

Well yeah, I'm just saying that at it's core and despite the numerous additions it made, Fever 2 still follows the Fever ruleset, instead of introducing a new one like TSU, SUN, YON and Fever did before.

Oh, OK. Well, I suppose I can't argue with you there. So, it's not like there was a "CHU" playstyle introduced in Fever 2, huh?

I actually tend to hear differing opinions from competitive players on which is the overpowered one.

Even balancing problems aside, the other big gripe with it is that it's essentially a more extreme version of Fever, which may not sound bad on paper, but here's the deal :

Unlike Fever's 30 seconds Henshin caps at 99 and that's not accounting for the extra time that you get for clearing your field (very easy with Deka in particular). On top of that you are completely invincible in Henshin, again unlike in Fever, which means that the opposing player can't do anything, but to enter Henshin mode themselves or wait out, until they can do damage again and it makes matches go on forever.

You know how annoying it is to play against Doppelganger Arle in YON, because of her barrier ability? It's similar to that.

Good heavens....Now I see what you're getting at...Wow, I can't even imagine how IRRITATING this would get over time.


BTW, unrelated thing here, but I've been watching a string of playthroughs of Puyo Puyo Chronicles. Aside from not being able to understand 99.99% of the game, can I just say I LOVE how this game's RPG mode brings back Puyo Puyo~n's party system, along with the fact that EVERY playable character in the game, joins Arle and Carbuncle on their quest to find a way back home?

Seriously, the cutscenes are also cute to see, as you see characters interact with each other who otherwise wouldn't have much of a reason to, such as:

- The cast of PP7 (ESPECIALLY Riskuma, Maguro, and Ecolo) interacting with MORE than just Arle, Amitie, and Carbuncle

- The casts of Fever and 7 along with Ally, reacting to Madou-era gags like Rulue's intense infatuation with Satan, Schezo's little "speech impediment", Satan's intense love for Arle and Carbuncle, Harpy's singing, etc.

- Character relationships being focused on such as Rulue and Raffine's sisterly friendship, Draco and Witch's relationship with Arle OUTSIDE of rivalries.

- Yu and Rei trying to scare more than just the 'A' Trio, with...limited success.

- Feli actually ATTACKING Lemres on PURPOSE (I think she was under a spell/controlled by Ecolo) and later on, being quite nice to the other characters (for the most part)

- Among many others. If you have any examples, please feel free to tell me.

 

[warelander]

Good heavens....Now I see what you're getting at...Wow, I can't even imagine how IRRITATING this would get over time.

If nothing else it's actually quite fun in endurance mode, if only because you can just watch opponent after opponent, fall like stacks of dominos, because of how long Henshin lasts.

Seriously, the cutscenes are also cute to see, as you see characters interact with each other who otherwise wouldn't have much of a reason to

To be honest, that's been something that I have been missing from the series for a while, because part of 20th, PPT and the Light Novels all have the Madou/Fever/7 casts very secluded from each other, with characters from one era interacting with each other, while having nothing to do with charas from the other eras, unlike let's say 15th where Arle could meet Oshare Bones or Klug could have a confrontation with Rulue and other unlikely combinations. In fact I credit Chronicle doing away with that grouping as a big reason why Risukuma and especially Maguro are so much more prominent then before in that game, since they are now allowed to have something to do with the whole cast, instead of them just being token friends for only Ringo to play off of.

Also, an unrelated note from my end, but does anyone else find it curious that Lagnus only appeared in Hasamuncho and no other DiscStation spin off?

thereheis

I never got why he was such a rare sight in spin off titles, not even just DS ones, but stuff like Waku Waku Puyo Dungeon as well, I mean Kikimora is there, so is Panotty and Archan and dozens of others, so why no Lagnus?

 

[VulcanWayro]

Eyo, new to thread, grew up with Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine on Sonic Mega Collection, played some Kirby's Avalanche on the SNES, the like. I aim to get Puyo Puyo Tetris for SWITCH if I can get a hold of one, like the game.

My brother hates anime and all related stuff, so he insists to this very day that if Sega had any sense, they would "ditch the lolis and uguu girls". He loved the Mean Bean Machine growing up, and was dismayed to discover Puyo Puyo was its true form. So, I guess if my brother had his way, all of this stuff you guys are talking about would be nuked into oblivion in favor of Bean Machine 2.

That being said, I'm pretty good at it, and I like the series. I'm also new to the series, so whatever. I don't know why I'm posting this.

 

[puyokid]

If nothing else, it's actually quite fun in endurance mode, if only because you can just watch opponent after opponent, fall like stacks of dominos, because of how long Henshin lasts.

Speaking of which, I actually came across a video of Puyo Puyo 7 on YouTube with someone doing just THAT. Here's the aforementioned video.



BTW, is it just me or is there is a LOT of Puyo Puyo 7 videos that if they're not focused on Ringo and/or Story Mode, they're focused on either Klug (ESPECIALLY pertaining to Transformation) or Sig VS. Klug...?

To be honest, that's been something that I have been missing from the series for a while, because part of 20th, PPT and the Light Novels all have the Madou/Fever/7 casts very secluded from each other, with characters from one era interacting with each other, while having nothing to do with characters from the other eras, unlike let's say 15th where Arle could meet Oshare Bones or Klug could have a confrontation with Rulue and other unlikely combinations. In fact, I credit Chronicle doing away with that grouping as a big reason why Risukuma and especially Maguro are so much more prominent than ever before in that game, since they are now allowed to have something to do with the whole cast, instead of them just being token friends for only Ringo to play off of.

Exactly! If I'm being honest here, I SUPPOSE I can sort of understand PPT not having much interaction between the casts of the various eras of Puyo Puyo since the Tet-Ship crew was more or less the main focus (and for good reason, since that's most likely going to be their ONLY appearance in the series outside of Quest).

That being said, I know that 20th Anniversary came BEFORE PPT, but I still feel like 20th Anniversary didn't really take advantage of the 3 eras interacting with each other like Chronicles did. I mean, if you're not going to take real advantage over the 3 eras interacting with each other that often, we may as well have stuck with either the Madou-era cast (outside of Arle and Carbuncle) NOT being brought back for future games starting with 15th Anniversary OR make a stronger barrier between the 3 dimensions so they don't meet up often.

I should mention that one thing I LOVED from the latest Light Novel (Satan and Ecolo's Amazing Amusement Park, if you wanted to know) is a scene that involves Amitie and Rulue interacting with each other. Specifically, Amitie asks Rulue just why EXACTLY does she dislike Arle so much, to which Rulue surprisingly replies that she doesn't hate Arle as a person at all. Heck, if it wasn't for Satan and her intense love for him, she and Arle would probably get along better than they currently do. Honestly, THAT'S the kind of interaction I'd like to see more often in the games these days. I should note, that from what I could gather, this conversation actually DOES come up AGAIN in Chronicles, but with ALLY instead of Amitie bringing up the subject to Rulue.

All of this being said, just like you I'm VERY glad that Chronicles seems to have rectified this little issue. ESPECIALLY for characters like Risukuma and Maguro (and even Ecolo, to an extent), all of whom seemed to take back seats to Ringo and the others more often than not in prior games are being given MUCH more notable roles this time around. Heck, two cutscenes (one each) even gives Maguro, and later Risukuma, extended conversations with Arle. Something you probably wouldn't even see in 20th Anniversary or the Light Novels.

BTW, I figure I should mention it now, but my little gripe with character interaction DOES extend to the "extended" Madou-era cast (Lagnus, Seriri, Harpy among MANY others) AND the Fever-era cast (Ms. Accord, Yu, Rei, ESPECIALLY Popoi, etc.)

Also, an unrelated note from my end, but does anyone else find it curious that Lagnus only appeared in Hasamuncho and no other DiscStation spin off?

thereheis

I never got why he was such a rare sight in spin off titles, not even just DS ones, but stuff like Waku Waku Puyo Dungeon as well, I mean Kikimora is there, so is Panotty and Archan and dozens of others, so why no Lagnus?

Actually, yeah. I noticed that too. Personally, I always figured it was because of how he was a playable character in Yo~n, so Compile chose to capitalize on him THEN. I mean, Hasamuncho WAS released in 1999, wasn't it?

Still, if he didn't even appear in Waku Waku Dungeon, you know something's a bit off. Heck, until you mentioned it, I didn't know Archan of all people was even in that game. Honestly, I feel that Lagnus deserves to appear in more games than shows up in. Heck, to this day, I still feel like one of SEGA's missed opportunities was to not re-introduce him in Puyo Puyo 7.

BTW, unrelated question on my end, but Succubus AND Incubus were both in Waku Waku Dungeon, weren't they?

My brother hates anime and all related stuff, so he insists to this very day that if Sega had any sense, they would "ditch the lolis and uguu girls". He loved the Mean Bean Machine growing up, and was dismayed to discover Puyo Puyo was its true form. So, I guess if my brother had his way, all of this stuff you guys are talking about would be nuked into oblivion in favor of Bean Machine 2.

Gee, am I glad they didn't reskin PPT over here. Your brother might not be the only one making that complaint. See some YouTube comments to see what I mean. Honestly, I prefer Puyo Puyo in its purest form, rather than a Sonic (or Kirby) spinoff game.

 

[warelander]

Exactly! If I'm being honest here, I SUPPOSE I can sort of understand PPT not having much interaction between the casts of the various eras of Puyo Puyo since the Tet-Ship crew was more or less the main focus (and for good reason, since that's most likely going to be their ONLY appearance in the series outside of Quest).

The focus on the Tetris cast was my major plus of the story, I thought their history and relationships with each other were very intriguing, really it's the Puyo side of things that I found lackluster, apart from the relationship between T and Ringo or the DLC chapter centering around Schezo and Sig, you know it's disappointing when the majority of the Puyo charas never even get to meet anyone from the Tetris crew, lot's of wasted potential I say.

I should mention that one thing I LOVED from the latest Light Novel (Satan and Ecolo's Amazing Amusement Park, if you wanted to know) is a scene that involves Amitie and Rulue interacting with each other. Specifically, Amitie asks Rulue just why EXACTLY does she dislike Arle so much, to which Rulue surprisingly replies that she doesn't hate Arle as a person at all. Heck, if it wasn't for Satan and her intense love for him, she and Arle would probably get along better than they currently do. Honestly, THAT'S the kind of interaction I'd like to see more often in the games these days. I should note, that from what I could gather, this conversation actually DOES come up AGAIN in Chronicles, but with ALLY instead of Amitie bringing up the subject to Rulue.

I'm not the biggest fan of the Light Novels, but I will say that they do sometimes really get things right, like your above example or how ''Sig's Secret'' actually brought Sig back closer to his earlier characterization that wasn't just all about bugs, really my only gripe there is that he has almost nothing to do with anyone but Amitie in that one, if that were fixed too he'd be almost back into who he was prior to his flanderization.

Actually, yeah. I noticed that too. Personally, I always figured it was because of how he was a playable character in Yo~n, so Compile chose to capitalize on him THEN. I mean, Hasamuncho WAS released in 1999, wasn't it?

It was yeah, though I'd say that the Saturn Madou Monogatari might be a better example, since the console version of YON demoted him to non-playable status, while Saturn Madou was very much his game, despite his limited time as a playable character, just look at how even the credits pictures almost exclusively focus on him.

Heck, to this day, I still feel like one of SEGA's missed opportunities was to not re-introduce him in Puyo Puyo 7.

Oh dude, you have no idea how much that irked me, I mean you have a playstyle that involves age changing, how in the world can you not put Lagnus in, it's so weird.

BTW, unrelated question on my end, but Succubus AND Incubus were both in Waku Waku Dungeon, weren't they?

Yep, they are both in, in fact I actually think it was this game that introduced Dominatrix Succubus or at the very least it was one of the earlies occurences of her appearing that way.

 

[Magma]

(It's getting hard to jump in...)

I wonder if this opinion is particularly unique to me or if it's just another one of my mild inoffensive opinions but...speaking of characterization I always found Arle in Sonic Team's games to be poorly characterized. I mean she didn't seem to be all that different from say, Amitie aside from the whole "different world thing". I would say Amitie and Ringo have more distinct personalities in comparison which make the light novels odd in this respect. She's nice and maybe a bit too nice and there isn't really a whole much else to her.

 

[puyokid]

The focus on the Tetris cast was my major plus of the story, I thought their history and relationships with each other were very intriguing. Really, it's the Puyo side of things that I found lackluster, apart from the relationship between T and Ringo or the DLC chapter centering around Schezo and Sig, you know it's disappointing when the majority of the Puyo characters never even get to meet anyone from the Tetris crew, lots of wasted potential I say.

Honestly, I felt that Tee's role in PPT's story was quite similar to that of Ringo's during her introduction to the series in PP7...and I LOVED that SO much about Tee.

Seriously, you don't know how much I agree with you about how ironic that nearly the ENTIRE (as in, ALL eras) PUYO cast just had their potential (save for a few characters, including the ones you mentioned) SO wasted for this game. Heck, I'd even go as far as to say HALF, if not 3/4, of the game's playable cast could have even gone without showing up, at least in the story, and it honestly wouldn't have made much of a difference.

Like you said, a majority of the Puyo cast didn't even get to meet the Tetris cast for that matter. Personally, I wouldn't even really count characters like Rulue, Raffine, and Feli (all of whom TECHNICALLY DID come across the Tetris cast) as ACTUALLY meeting and talking to them straight up, and that's not even going to characters like Draco, Witch, Suketoudara, Klug, or even Sig (DLC not included) who just appear for like 2-3 cutscenes, and even then, the story sort of could have done without them...Heck, do I even NEED to get into Risukuma and Maguro...?

I'm not the biggest fan of the Light Novels, but I will say that they do sometimes really get things right, like your above example or how ''Sig's Secret'' actually brought Sig back closer to his earlier characterization that wasn't just all about bugs, really my only gripe there is that he has almost nothing to do with anyone but Amitie in that one, if that were fixed too he'd be almost back into who he was prior to his flanderization.

Yeah, I noticed that Sig wasn't anywhere near as focused on bugs in that story as he is in the games. Like you said, if only Sig DIDN'T use Amitie as his primary means of interaction in that story, I'd also think the "Sig's Secret" light novel was bringing him back to his Fever 2/15th anniversary characterization. I should mention, that I don't mind him being a bug-lover at all. I'm just not a big fan of how that seems to be "too much" of an influence in his personalty now.

It was yeah, though I'd say that the Saturn Madou Monogatari might be a better example, since the console version of YON demoted him to non-playable status, while Saturn Madou was very much his game, despite his limited time as a playable character, just look at how even the credits pictures almost exclusively focus on him.

Oh, right. Madou Saturn was released the year before. Yeah, that DOES seem more likely of a reason, considering the crazy huge role he had for that game. Speaking of which, I always wondered, why make artwork for Lagnus and many other Madou-era characters in (home console) Yo~n if they weren't even going to be playable, but CPU opponents instead? I think I saw somewhere that even more characters like Zoh Daimaoh, Succubus, Kodomo Dragon, and even Nasu Grave, among many others WERE going to playable for Yo~n, but instead only cameo in the GBC version at best. I guess Compile REALLY wanted to go all out with the roster, bu couldn't for some reason or another.

Oh dude, you have no idea how much that irked me, I mean you have a playstyle that involves age changing, how in the world can you not put Lagnus in, it's so weird.

I know, right? Seriously, what the heck SEGA? You DON'T add the one Puyo Puyo character who's known for his gimmick of (unwittingly) changing his age? Heck, he was using Transformation magic BEFORE it was cool!

.......or at least, BEFORE people realized how unbalanced it was to use in ACTUAL gameplay. Heh-heh...

Yep, they are both in, in fact I actually think it was this game that introduced Dominatrix Succubus or at the very least it was one of the earliest occurrences of her appearing that way.

Oh, really? Wait, I know Succubus appeared in Madou ARS, but I never really got the..."concept" of her look in that game. Same goes for Rulue who I, for the life of me, couldn't tell if she was going for an Egyptian/Cleopatra look or something. It's my favorite incarnation of Rulue hands-down as I always found her at her prettiest in that game, but I just couldn't ever figure out the look she was going for in that game...

(It's getting hard to jump in...)

I wonder if this opinion is particularly unique to me or if it's just another one of my mild inoffensive opinions but...speaking of characterization I always found Arle in Sonic Team's games to be poorly characterized. I mean she didn't seem to be all that different from say, Amitie aside from the whole "different world thing". I would say Amitie and Ringo have more distinct personalities in comparison which make the light novels odd in this respect. She's nice and maybe a bit too nice and there isn't really a whole much else to her.

(Ermm...Sorry about that...)

Actually, you're not the only one who's noticed that. I mean, don't get me wrong, I would like it if SEGA DIDN'T resort to turning Arle into a total jerkass like she kind of was in Tsu to distinguish her from Amitie, but I do feel she is a little "too" happy-go-lucky for her own good in the SEGA-era games. If anything, that kind of personality fits Amitie more than anyone.

If they brought back her personality from Minna de Puyo Puyo, with the snarky sarcasm toned down just a smidge, I'd be cool with that. After a while, Arle having a happy-go-lucky attitude gets a bit stale when you put her next to both Amitie AND Ringo, the former of which (Amitie) ALREADY sort of has "happy-go-lucky" as her "de facto" defining personality, and the latter (Ringo) pretty much borrows Arle's personality from Puyo Puyo SUN, and slightly exaggerates some aspects of it here and there with her own little quirks. All of this being said, I do hope SEGA does something about Arle's current characterization at some point, though I can't exactly say I'm holding my breath...

 

[warelander]

Yeah, I noticed that Sig wasn't anywhere near as focused on bugs in that story as he is in the games. Like you said, if only Sig DIDN'T use Amitie as his primary means of interaction in that story, I'd also think the "Sig's Secret" light novel was bringing him back to his Fever 2/15th anniversary characterization.

I should stress that I like the friendship between Sig and Amitie, hell, I used to ship them I just find it lame when he becomes a major focus again for once and Klug and Raffine only once get to say something to him during the epilogue or when Arle and Ringo don't even react to him and are even conveniently left out of the climax. It makes Sig feel more like a plot device then a character, when nobody but Amitie and to a lesser extend Lemres, actually have anything to say to him.

I should mention, that I don't mind him being a bug-lover at all. I'm just not a big fan of how that seems to be "too much" of an influence in his personalty now.

I like it too, it's quirky and suits him, I'm just not a fan of when it outright consumes his character.

I always wondered, why make artwork for Lagnus and many other Madou-era characters in (home console) Yo~n if they weren't even going to be playable, but CPU opponents instead? I think I saw somewhere that even more characters like Zoh Daimaoh, Succubus, Kodomo Dragon, and even Nasu Grave, among many others WERE going to playable for Yo~n, but instead only cameo in the GBC version at best. I guess Compile REALLY wanted to go all out with the roster, bu couldn't for some reason or another.

Given that Lagnus, Momomo, Incubus, Honey Bee and Minotauros were all shown together with the playable cast in official art I, always assumed that they were meant to be playable, but were cut due to potential issues like time constraints, especially since they all became playable again in the GBC version.

The GBC cameos though I always just saw as simple cameos with no special meaning.

Oh, really?

I did a check and yeah, Waku Puyo Dungeon came out two months before Saturn Madou, so my first assumption about her first appearing that way was true after all, though I wasn't that sure myself.

I wonder if this opinion is particularly unique to me or if it's just another one of my mild inoffensive opinions but...speaking of characterization I always found Arle in Sonic Team's games to be poorly characterized. I mean she didn't seem to be all that different from say, Amitie aside from the whole "different world thing". I would say Amitie and Ringo have more distinct personalities in comparison which make the light novels odd in this respect. She's nice and maybe a bit too nice and there isn't really a whole much else to her.

I can see what you mean, personally my ideal Arle characterization would be a middle ground between her nicer portrayals and the smartass from Minna. In essence that would make her generally nice, while still not being afraid to make a sarcasric or snarky remark, juat not as aggressively as in Mina, unless it's against someone who annoys her (Satan) or someone she has a lot of disdain for (Schezo).

 

[puyokid]

I should stress that I like the friendship between Sig and Amitie, hell, I used to ship them I just find it lame when he becomes a major focus again for once and Klug and Raffine only once get to say something to him during the epilogue or when Arle and Ringo don't even react to him and are even conveniently left out of the climax. It makes Sig feel more like a plot device then a character, when nobody but Amitie, and to a lesser extent Lemres, actually have anything to say to him.

Personally, I STILL ship Amitie and Sig. I feel like there is potential for that pairing than most think. Heck, I feel like "Sig's Secret" actually tried to give it SOME kind of development for that matter, though it's nothing concrete, of course. Still, I have to agree with you on how Sig himself felt like more of a plot device in his OWN story than anything else. Also, it really is weird how Raffine and Klug (Both of whom are in his class, no less!) don't really say anything to him throughout the story, and he was helping them with the arrangements. Remind me, were they even AWARE of his unusual behavior once his demon powers started acting up? Same question goes for Arle, Ringo, and Carbuncle.

I like it too, it's quirky and suits him, I'm just not a fan of when it outright consumes his character.

Exactly. Hit the nail on the head.

Given that Lagnus, Momomo, Incubus, Honey Bee, and Minotauros were all shown together with the playable cast in official art, I always assumed that they were meant to be playable, but were cut due to potential issues like time constraints, especially since they all became playable again in the GBC version.

Honestly, I kind of hope the fact that they weren't playable in the console versions of Yo~n WASN'T because of that whole "24 'arc number' character limit thing". Seriously, over time that gimmick gets old when you're limiting yourself like that, but the SEGA-era games make it seem more and more likely that this will be a thing for future games.

The GBC cameos though I always just saw as simple cameos with no special meaning.

To be honest, I feel like those cameos in the GBC version should have been used for the console version. I feel like it would have given Satan's Puyo circus a bit more depth to it than just having it there for the sake of giving Yo~n a new setting.

I did a check and yeah, Waku Puyo Dungeon came out two months before Saturn Madou, so my first assumption about her first appearing that way was true after all, though I wasn't that sure myself.

Oh, really? Well, that's interesting. BTW, that MIGHT explain why Lagnus DOESN'T appear in Waku Waku Dungeon...

I can see what you mean, personally my ideal Arle characterization would be a middle ground between her nicer portrayals and the smart-ass from Minna. In essence that would make her generally nice, while still not being afraid to make a sarcastic or snarky remark, just not as aggressively as in Minna, unless it's against someone who annoys her (Satan) or someone she has a lot of disdain for (Schezo).

See, that's EXACTLY how I want Arle to be characterized in the series, as you might have seen in my last post. I don't mind the nice girl characterization for Arle, but these days, putting that next to Amitie and Ringo makes the whole thing a bit stale and fall kind of flat, especially when Amitie already has "all-loving, happy-go-lucky nice girl" as her defining characteristic. If SEGA brought back Arle's personality from Minna de Puyo Puyo, with the snarky sarcasm toned down just a smidge, I'd be cool with that.

 

[warelander]

Personally, I STILL ship Amitie and Sig. I feel like there is potential for that pairing than most think.

To be fair, while I'm not really that into it anymore I still kinda like AmitiexSig, it just so happens that I have my own pairing that I think has far more potential then people would give it credit for:

Spoiler: Image Dump

I love this way too much.

Remind me, were they even AWARE of his unusual behavior once his demon powers started acting up? Same question goes for Arle, Ringo, and Carbuncle.

Raffine and Klug may have had suspicions, but it's not entirely clear, Arle and Ringo seemed to have some awareness, but their thoughts on the matter are never explored.

Honestly, I kind of hope the fact that they weren't playable in the console versions of Yo~n WASN'T because of that whole "24 'arc number' character limit thing". Seriously, over time that gimmick gets old when you're limiting yourself like that, but the SEGA-era games make it seem more and more likely that this will be a thing for future games.

Not sure if it was the case back then, but the SEGA era games seem to limit their roster like that due to budget constraints, if interviews are anything to go by.

To be honest, I feel like those cameos in the GBC version should have been used for the console version. I feel like it would have given Satan's Puyo circus a bit more depth to it than just having it there for the sake of giving Yo~n a new setting.

That would have been neat yeah, just to actually see the circus a bit, because the console version really glances over it.

Oh, really? Well, that's interesting. BTW, that MIGHT explain why Lagnus DOESN'T appear in Waku Waku Dungeon...

Possibly, perhaps they weren't sure whether they wanted Lagnus to be a regular at that point, at any rate I doubt it had anything to do with rights issues due to him debuting in Shin Madou Monogatari, especially since SEGA can not only use him, but has also been fairly kind to him, PP7 notwithstanding.

 

[puyokid]

To be fair, while I'm not really that into it anymore I still kinda like AmitiexSig, it just so happens that I have my own pairing that I think has far more potential then people would give it credit for:

Well, like the old saying goes: "Each to their own, right?"

Raffine and Klug may have had suspicions, but it's not entirely clear, Arle and Ringo seemed to have some awareness, but their thoughts on the matter are never explored.

See, that's why I feel like "Sig's Secret" didn't take advantage of the interaction between the characters as well as it should have, ESPECIALLY in the case of Sig himself.

Not sure if it was the case back then, but the SEGA era games seem to limit their roster like that due to budget constraints, if interviews are anything to go by.

Wait, seriously? Budget constraints?? That's really why the "24-characters-to-a-game limit rule" is a thing in the SEGA-era games...? I don't suppose you know the EXACT reason, do you? Like, is it paying voice actors or something?

Possibly, perhaps they weren't sure whether they wanted Lagnus to be a regular at that point, at any rate I doubt it had anything to do with rights issues due to him debuting in Shin Madou Monogatari, especially since SEGA can not only use him, but has also been fairly kind to him, PP7 notwithstanding.

Actually, I think your explanation makes a bit more sense. I mean, the ONLY game game Lagnus had even appeared in prior to Madou Saturn AND Waku Waku Dungeon was (and correct if I'm wrong here) Puyo Puyo SUN, wasn't it? So, I suppose they WERE still in the process of deciding whether or not he'd be a recurring thing in Puyo Puyo as a whole at that point in time...

That would have been neat yeah, just to actually see the circus a bit, because the console version really glances over it.

Exactly. I feel like the whole circus could have been done a bit better if they hadn't simply explained that Satan's magic trick had caused Carbuncle to disappear the way he did. If they shown things like Succubus being a "Zoh Daimaoh tamer", Kodomo Dragon doing their thing, Rulue being the "World's Strongest Woman", etc. like they did in the GBC version, I feel like it would have given the Puyo circus more "personality".

BTW, speaking of Puyo Puyo~n...

Would it be weird for me to say that I'm unusually more hyped for this than I need to be? I mean, the fact that Puyo Puyo~n getting a shout-out like THIS really excites me.

This being said...when's Yo~n Arle, Rulue, Schezo, Satan, and Draco, SEGA?

 

[warelander]

Well, like the old saying goes: "Each to their own, right?"

Indeed.

See, that's why I feel like "Sig's Secret" didn't take advantage of the interaction between the characters as well as it should have, ESPECIALLY in the case of Sig himself.

Yeah, I mean especially with how Arle and Ringo were done away with before the climax, it's like they were dodging any chance to involve other characters into Sig's dilemma.

It's especially lame because the process of Sig having to be brought back to normal before his old self is consumed by his demon nature would have been far stronger if it involved more of his friends then just Amitie (and Lemres standing on the sidelines).

Wait, seriously? Budget constraints?? That's really why the "24-characters-to-a-game limit rule" is a thing in the SEGA-era games...? I don't suppose you know the EXACT reason, do you? Like, is it paying voice actors or something?

I'm basing my assumption off this interview:

http://puyonexus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3203

Looking back it's not as concrete as I remembered it to be, but it does suggest that the budget could be the problem, especially since SEGA Puyo games clearly do't have terribly big ones to begin with.

Actually, I think your explanation makes a bit more sense. I mean, the ONLY game game Lagnus had even appeared in prior to Madou Saturn AND Waku Waku Dungeon was (and correct if I'm wrong here) Puyo Puyo SUN, wasn't it? So, I suppose they WERE still in the process of deciding whether or not he'd be a recurring thing in Puyo Puyo as a whole at that point in time...

Yeah SUN was the only one beforehand to have Lagnus, I guess that could have really been the reason why he was so absent for many games beforehand, he did regulary appear starting with the Saturn Madou game, but by that point Compile were already on their last years with the franchise, him being in Minna, getting three alts so far in Quest and him showing up for Chronicle do give me hope that SEGA likes him enough to keep him around more often now though, he is one of my favorite characters, so I'd certainly appreciate it.

Exactly. I feel like the whole circus could have been done a bit better if they hadn't simply explained that Satan's magic trick had caused Carbuncle to disappear the way he did. If they shown things like Succubus being a "Zoh Daimaoh tamer", Kodomo Dragon doing their thing, Rulue being the "World's Strongest Woman", etc. like they did in the GBC version, I feel like it would have given the Puyo circus more "personality".

Not only that, but the GBC version also starts with a match against Doppel. Arle as Pierrot at the circus, that's another thing that's not in the console version at all, but would have been neat to have.

Would it be weird for me to say that I'm unusually more hyped for this than I need to be? I mean, the fact that Puyo Puyo~n getting a shout-out like THIS really excites me.

Heh, I don't blame you one bit, because I'm stupidly happy about this myself, even more then I was with ''Cool Schezo'' who was pretty much just Schezo back in his white robes from most of the pre-15th games.