So this is Sakurai's excuse for removing Wario's shoulder bash...
- Thread starter Mario123311
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Ah, it came of as a bit dismissive so I misinterpreted your intent. My B!
I'd argue that his strength was more heavily emphasized, what with his reliance on the shoulder bash throughout the entirety of each Wario Land game, and his plethora of artwork and animations with him flexing his biceps. It's also his main schtick in Mario spinoffs, for what that's worth. And greed, well, that's the whole point of his games. Toilet humor was just sort of scattered throughout promotional material and instruction booklets every now and again; definitely an ever-present part of his character, but by no means a bigger part. That said, I don't mind the Waft being present as much as others do, though I am disappointed that it's emphasized so much in Smash while his brute strength isn't that well-represented.
The games themselves focused more upon Wario's adventures and his actions therein than his personality. So we get his strength and greed represented by him smashing things and taking loot, but picking his nose or indulging in toilet humor isn't really pertinent to what's going on. American manuals and commercials didn't really emphasize the toilet humor part so much, but we still got plenty of artwork with Wario picking his nose.
I think Wario's grossness might have come as an extension to his stereotypical 'manliness' mixed up with his tendency to being humilliated. I don't mind it as an aspect of him at all, but I think it comes out better when it's used like in Shake It, where picking his nose or scratching his butt were more idle habits than anything so it gave the impression he didn't care about the deeper implications of his adventure.
idk as much as it has a reason behind it in japanese manuals and what not, it's a dumb justification given it could be there without getting in the way of his more important traits. Wario in smash never felt like Wario to me; the character doesn't have the moves, the sense of humour or even the general... feel, of what Wario actually is.
idk as much as it has a reason behind it in japanese manuals and what not, it's a dumb justification given it could be there without getting in the way of his more important traits. Wario in smash never felt like Wario to me; the character doesn't have the moves, the sense of humour or even the general... feel, of what Wario actually is.
You do realize it's actually one of, if not his main trait? It's not just "reasons in japanese manuals", it's a huge part of his character(in Japan). Heck, Brawl's translated Trophy had it mentioned as being as important as his greed(which unlike Grossness is hard to really represent in a moveset):
Brawl: Mario's self-styled rival. He loves money and gross humor.
Likewise, Money(Greed) and grossness are emphasized in 4 as well:
A living embodiment of gross, this villain hates Mario and loves money.
It's like if you didn't represent Donald Duck's anger in a fighting game because some country decided his anger was way to disturbing so now it isn't a major part of his character.
We in the west have long been living with a censored Wario, but now that his traits that's always been there in Japan are starting to become obvious because more time is spent on his actual character these days.
Heck, even the greed thing thing wasn't really THAT much of a thing in Japan, though the Ego was:
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/11/wariofart1/
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/11/wariofart2/
American Wario was made much more of a villainous character that was more seriously evil, while the japanese version was always a goofy cartoon villain.
-Doesn't have the moves :
Which moves exactly, if we take Brawl Wario? The Power Throw? Cause that's the ONLY arguable signature move Brawl Wario didn't have.
He also had a lot ofhis moveset(even the A-moves, which for many characters is somewhat unrelated to their games/character.
-The Feel: Feelings are vague and very subjective, but HOW doesn't he feel like Wario? Again, his moveset is one of truest to the character of ANY in Smash(though outclassed by Mega Man- that guy has the single most true to his roots moveset of all). He's fast, strong and heavy without being all that laggy(unique traits and also ones that I feel fit Wario).
It really does feel sometimes that Land fans dislike the fact that Wario was based on more than just that series, in how his specials are all from World(Land in 3D!) and Ware. Brawl Wario had both the Ground Pound and the Shoulder Charge.
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oh so its not the japanese manuals, its the descriptions from games in english that arent his as well
Oh look another in-game description. ...Not even that, its from the manual, isnt it?
Oh so you mean the actual gameplay is not as much of a point as the way the manuals/commercials present him
You seem to be taking your sources from manuals/text and god damn Brawl as your most concrete source for the gameplay.
Sorry but I dont care about how America/Japan/whatever see him as in their merchandising, what Wario should be like is what he presents in the actual games, thats the most factual source you have. And the actual games show him as more than a goofy fart joke. If Greed isnt so important then why is the main point of the games to get money? I also think his goofyness is an important aspect of his, but why couldnt this be shown through the humilliating transformations instead of putting most of the focus on a single trait that isnt even part of the gameplay?
Im not saying they shouldnt add anything new or that it should play exactly the same as he does in the games since that would be boring as fuck. Im just saying the end result doesnt feel like playing Wario because its clearly based on one interpretation of him rather than what he SHOWS in the actual games.
My point is that an objective portrayal of him could lead to all of these interpretations people have of wario but what we got is just a biased one. You can give all the side-sources you want, but what the main wario games show is always gonna be his stronger portrayal, and its where all of these others came from.
Just his goofyness, or his power, or his greed or his ego; i dont think it should be ONE, it should be something that allows you to see the whole package.
If grossness was really supposed to be such a big part of Wario from the beginning, why wasn't there anything in the GAMES themselves?
There's not a single bit of toilet humor, nose picking, farting or whatever in any of the early games. (WL 1-4)
If the game developers really meant to make it an important part of his character then they would've put it in there.
I mean imagine if back when they made Luigi's Mansion, they wanted to make Luigi a cowardly character but they only ever hinted at it in the manuals. You could argue he was supposed to be a scaredy cat but when the actual game does nothing to portray that then it must not have been that important.
Or imagine if the manuals of all the Donkey Kong games stated that DK suffers from depression or something but none of the actual games can confirm that, would that still be a big part of his character?
In reality Luigi was intentionally developed into a cowardly character and his game was made to reflect that. In the same way Wario Land reflects Wario's strength, adventurous spirit, brutish attitude and of course his greed.
That's his character. All the weirder aspects came from enemies, places or situations. (Like I said earlier, drunk Wario or Zombie Wario are indeed gross, but Wario has no control over it.)
You know, it just confuses me.
The impression that I got of Wario from years of playing Wario Land 1 through 4 as a child was not this flanderized fat guy stereotype. He was certainly goofy sometimes, he didn't care about anyone but himself, but in the center there was still this lovably narcissistic, energetic and just all around fun character... who was sort of a role model for a fat, unloved child like I was....
...but hey.... maybe I was wrong. Maybe Wario really was just a fat gross guy.... I mean it certainly seems to be the popular version of him right now...
...maybe it was all just an illusion... ...maybe I tried to convince myself that he was the first actual positive fat character of my childhood when in reality he was just like any other character...
...I guess the delusion was uplifting while it lasted...
There's not a single bit of toilet humor, nose picking, farting or whatever in any of the early games. (WL 1-4)
If the game developers really meant to make it an important part of his character then they would've put it in there.
I mean imagine if back when they made Luigi's Mansion, they wanted to make Luigi a cowardly character but they only ever hinted at it in the manuals. You could argue he was supposed to be a scaredy cat but when the actual game does nothing to portray that then it must not have been that important.
Or imagine if the manuals of all the Donkey Kong games stated that DK suffers from depression or something but none of the actual games can confirm that, would that still be a big part of his character?
In reality Luigi was intentionally developed into a cowardly character and his game was made to reflect that. In the same way Wario Land reflects Wario's strength, adventurous spirit, brutish attitude and of course his greed.
That's his character. All the weirder aspects came from enemies, places or situations. (Like I said earlier, drunk Wario or Zombie Wario are indeed gross, but Wario has no control over it.)
You know, it just confuses me.
The impression that I got of Wario from years of playing Wario Land 1 through 4 as a child was not this flanderized fat guy stereotype. He was certainly goofy sometimes, he didn't care about anyone but himself, but in the center there was still this lovably narcissistic, energetic and just all around fun character... who was sort of a role model for a fat, unloved child like I was.......but hey.... maybe I was wrong. Maybe Wario really was just a fat gross guy.... I mean it certainly seems to be the popular version of him right now...
...maybe it was all just an illusion... ...maybe I tried to convince myself that he was the first actual positive fat character of my childhood when in reality he was just like any other character...
...I guess the delusion was uplifting while it lasted...
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http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/11/wariofart1/
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/11/wariofart2/
A pretty good history on Wario and his Japanese self.
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/11/wariofart2/
A pretty good history on Wario and his Japanese self.
Gee, all traits found in both Japanese Wario AND Brawl Wario(outside Power Throw, which is a sorta generic throw to begin with).
Sakurai should not be beholden to localizers take on Wario.
wario scratch his butt when you idle on climbing a ladder in WL3
I'd argue that he's not exactly fast, what with his very average ground speed and poor attack frame data (8 frame jab, why Sakurai?), as well as all of his most powerful attacks having awful, awful endlag (25 frames for f-tilt, 47 frames for the stupid backhand f-smash, 45 frames for up-smash, 41 frames for d-smash, and 39 endlag and 27 landing lag for b-air). He also doesn't generally have that strong of attacks besides some really laggy attacks that are very difficult to set up, and the Waft, which is a completely different can of worms. Having poor range also makes it easier to punish these whiffs.
I don't actually remember that. Can we get a picture? Not trying to dismiss Wario being gross. I just don't actually remember him doing that; I might not have ever noticed.
So does Mario in Mario 64.
Who doesn't cratch their butt sometimes?
Btw, I have nothing against a bit of butt stuff in Wario games. If I did I wouldn't have made a WL3 style replica of Wario's butt wiggle dance from Shake it. *points at signature*
Besides, Wario uses his butt to smash solid rocks in his games.
What bothers me is when it goes into toilet humor territory. Which thankfully Wario Land avoids. Unlike Master of Disguise.
